Aloysius Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 It is a well known fact that Pope Benedict XVI favors an Ad Orientum position of the priest during mass for the theological and symbolic reasons that he should be facing Christ with the people, so do you think he might do something about that? Perhaps making it an option and emphasizing some sort of pride of place for that option in the Ordo Missae Normativa (also known as the Novus Ordo or new order for those of us who still attend an old order of the mass)? That would be exciting. Of course, so long as it was only an option the partially protestantized mentality of the american priest regarding the mass would brush it off... but do you think it possible that Benedict could um... make it the NORM! dare I hope? dare I dream? I think that would be amazing, he could give a papal order to move all priest's chairs from the front center to the side! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little_angel202 Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 that would be fantastic!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 I wouldbe suprised if he made it the norm, it would be a pleasn't suprise but still a suprise, lets hope at least for it as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted April 21, 2005 Author Share Posted April 21, 2005 he does have a strong preference towards this... and his idea of a solution to the problem of bad symbolism in versus populum is to put a crucifix in between the people and the priest. I could see him making ad orientum an option and making a visible crucifix in between the priest and people a requirement for any mass celebrated versus populum, so everyone is still facing Christ and thus spiritually east... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesChristi Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 [i]ad orientem[/i] is already an option in the normative order of the Mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 I hope He make ad orientem the Norm. I hope that throws out Vatican II and destryos the Novus Ordo Mass, but hey thats just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 why are you so against something? Is not our physical position irrelevant? Are we so simple to think that we are not always "facing" God. Looking at the people is facing God as much as looking at the Tabernacle. You see it as such a bad thing and something that should go. That is the mentality that got us to this point in the first place. Something does not need to go, you just need to understand. It is the protestants that always want it their way. Stuff is not watered down by having the Mass in English. Things are [b]gained[/b] by doing it in Latin. You do not have to loose something to gain. Vernacular is Good, some people like Latin. Novus Ordo is good, some people like Tridentine. Together they lead us all into a closer relationship with Jesus. It is the [b]same[/b] Mass in whatever language or form it is done which is the important part. It is Jesus truly present in the Eucharist. Please don't be the [b]my[/b] way people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 I also hope that the Holy Father will move the Church towards saying the Mass [i]ad orientum[/i]. It is even possible, in my opinion, that he need not even make an official statement or declaration concerning this. It has always been an option, and I think much would be gained if he simply chose to say Mass [i]ad orientum[/i]. I think if he were to do so visibly, as Pope, many would follow his example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 [quote name='MilesChristi' date='Apr 20 2005, 07:32 PM'] [i]ad orientem[/i] is already an option in the normative order of the Mass. [/quote] It's already the norm.....the indult is the versus populum. Go figure.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatmanjose Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 I actually can't believe i'm writing this... i agree that there is a certain, profound theological signifigance to the priest facing the tabernacle with the laity. However, i have come to realize a depth in the priest facing his flock. I was meditating on the fact that the priest is [i]in persona Christi[/i] at Mass (and to be technically correct, at the consecration) and that spouses can communicate a great deal in a simple look. There is something beautiful seeing a priest who loves his vocation say Mass. Maybe some of what we dislike about a priest facing us is that we can see how bored they are... and vice versa... Just a thought... pax et bonum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theologian in Training Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 I always looked at this way,...that is, with regard to the priest having his "back towards us." His back is not towards us, rather, he is offering sacrifice for his people, and we, as the people are watching him do so. I kind of look at it as him saying "wait here" while I offer the sacrifice. He leads us in that sacrifice and it is perfectly scriptural. Remember how the priest would enter the holy of holies in the OT? I see it the same way. Granted, I am not advocating that we get rid of the Novus Ordo, nor am I advocating that we go back to the Tridentine Mass, it is just that as Benedict, as Ratzinger pointed out, facing East is facing Jerusalem, facing the Rising Sun, the light. Therefore, logically, if you are facing West you are not facing Jerusalem and you are, in actual fact, facing the darkness. Theologically, it makes sense to face East. Furthermore, just because the people and the priest face East does not mean that his back will be to us, it could be he faces East and we face him. Just my .02 God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Apr 20 2005, 08:42 PM'] I hope He make ad orientem the Norm. I hope that throws out Vatican II and destryos the Novus Ordo Mass, but hey thats just me. [/quote] dude, no you don't hope he throws out vatican II. otherwise, you would not be able to study the documents to know the things you know. Further, you had better hope that he enacts Vatican II as it should be! If he cracks down, then there will be no problem. Don't be crazy. Vatican II happened, and it was right. It needs to be properly understood by both modernists and traditionalists. I can't believe you'd want to throw out the Council that enabled you to actually study your faith without knowing latin, greek or hebrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 why cannot we have both. like have the 1st mass in the parish be ad orientum and another novus ordo? Ardillacid who eats taco cow bell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 [quote name='ardillacid' date='Apr 21 2005, 01:06 AM'] why cannot we have both. like have the 1st mass in the parish be ad orientum and another novus ordo? [/quote] they aren't mutually exclusive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 elaborate, por favor Tom the kikau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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