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Franciscans of the Primitive Observance

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Posted

The FPO's spun off the CFR's 18-20 years ago. The Sisters were either with them or not too far behind. They went back to the primitive Rule of St. Francis. Cardinal Sean O'Malley (OFM Cap. himself) was Bishop of Fall River at the time and took them in. Number-wise, they were a just a handful to begin with, then a Franciscan from another branch joined them. We attended what were probably the first ordinations for the FPO's in '91 or '92. Their seminary studies were guided by a theology prof from the FI's, who lived close by. There were about six Sisters, and they had a few discerners but no vocations of their own yet.

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Posted

P.S. Now their seminary program is at St. Mary's Seminary in Emmitsburg. They've had a house there for the last couple of years, and at last news it was doing well.

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Posted (edited)

[quote name='littlesister' post='1522974' date='May 8 2008, 11:49 PM']To answer my own question : I came across the sister-community's website. They are now called the "Capuchin Sisters of Nazareth," and are located in Pennsylvania, in the Diocese of Scranton, not in New York. While still being very contemplative and community-minded, they are more "active" than formerly, with apostolates of evangelization and youth work. "Awesome" is the word.[/quote]
more about them here
[url="http://vocation-station.blogspot.com/2008/02/capuchinfranciscan-sisters-of-nazareth.html"]http://vocation-station.blogspot.com/2008/...f-nazareth.html[/url]

and
if you scroll down a page on the below link, there are a few posts about the FPOs
[url="http://romancatholicvocations.blogspot.com/search/label/Franciscans%20of%20the%20Primitive%20Observance"]http://romancatholicvocations.blogspot.com...ve%20Observance[/url]

[img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3243/2480460681_6bd6c00047_o.jpg[/img] Edited by EJames2

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[quote name='MilesChristi' post='589004' date='May 11 2005, 07:39 PM']For the past couple years I've been developing an interest in Franciscan spirituality. While continuing to discern my vocation, I've glanced around at various orders. A while back I read a brief article on a group called the Franciscans of the Primitive Observance. Apparently, they're a small group which split off from the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal in order to live an even more intense interpretation of the way of St. Francis.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find any other information about them. As far as I know, they don't have a website, and I haven't been able to find any other contact information. I was wondering if any of you out there have heard of them, met one of the friars in person, or know how I might get in contact with them?

Thanks! :)[/quote]
[font="Comic Sans MS"][/font
My brother has been with the FPOs for 8 years or so. I just saw him the other day during a stop over before his home visit. They have friaries in Lawrence MA, Emmittsburg, MD and San Marcos, Nicaragua. All of the FPOs are currently in Lawrence for the ordinations of Br. Benedict and Br. Andrew.

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Posted

ya they sound very cool but i really doubt they would be for me.

1. don't think i can handle a full office of readings. i struggle when they do only half or so.
2. hitchhiking - flat feet. painful walking long distances or standing long periods.
3. need doctor checkups every month or so. not possible while on the road?

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1495216' date='Apr 8 2008, 05:49 PM']begging and dumpster diving.[/quote]

interesting. i think i could handle that. probably need a tetanus shot first though..

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Can anyone help me locate a group of Franciscan Sisters of the Primative
Observance (not those now in PA) who were likewise directed by Father
Kelly. The foundress, Sister Mary Clement was a member of another con-
gregation before ( the same that I was in). When I last saw them, they were
living in a large old convent in New Bedford, MA. They rose at Midnight to
pray part of the Office, slept on the floor, and spent the full morning (every-
day) in silence and personal & communal prayer. Someone told me they are
now in Bellingham, MA. I no longer live in the US.... Does anyone know
where they are now?

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Posted

Wow I didn't know that these former FPO sisters are the Capuchin Sisters of Nazareth. Interesting. Has anyone visited them?

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[quote name='HolyHearts' post='1532170' date='May 18 2008, 07:32 AM']Can anyone help me locate a group of Franciscan Sisters of the Primative
Observance (not those now in PA) who were likewise directed by Father
Kelly. The foundress, Sister Mary Clement was a member of another con-
gregation before ( the same that I was in). When I last saw them, they were
living in a large old convent in New Bedford, MA. They rose at Midnight to
pray part of the Office, slept on the floor, and spent the full morning (every-
day) in silence and personal & communal prayer. Someone told me they are
now in Bellingham, MA. I no longer live in the US.... Does anyone know
where they are now?[/quote]

They are at the cathedral in Worcester and West Warren, MA.

Our Lady of Angels Convent
Franciscan Sisters Minor
PO Box 832
West Warren MA 01092-9998

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[quote name='Thomist-in-Training' post='1496130' date='Apr 10 2008, 01:46 AM']So where would you put the FI's in the comparison among these guys? I met their Sisters in Rome and they were pretty amazing. I've heard good things about the FPO's also.[/quote]

Thomist,
If I had to summarize in a word, I would say the FI are the most traditional of the bunch, whereas the CFR are the most active, and the FPO are the most primitive.

There are some videos on each community at the following site (including the Sisters of Nazareth, but no videos of the FPO yet); [url="http://www.religious-vocation.com/media_links.html"]http://www.religious-vocation.com/media_links.html[/url]

Blessings.

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Posted

+JMJ

A very holy Order that promotes virginity and purity. Good people.

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Posted

The message is a bit late, but what's the difference between a traditional and a primitive order?

Does anyone have the FPO site? I prefer the TLM, but I guess Fr. Padre Pio did do the NO (just as happily, I don't know).
Is the FI an obedient order? It seems so as I saw two Pope Benedict 16 articles that seemed favorable by the title.

Thanks!

[quote name='Beatus' post='1602221' date='Jul 17 2008, 05:03 PM']+JMJ

A very holy Order that promotes virginity and purity. Good people.[/quote]

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Posted

Padre Pio never said the NO. He died in '68 and the NO was promulgated in 1970. I think he may have said the transitional Mass of '65, but I read that he wasn't happy about the news reports of the Vat. Council though I don't have a quote.

The FI are in communion, they were founded out of the Conventuals, have charge of a shrine in WI founded by Abp. Burke, are sacristans at St. Mary Major in Rome. Presently (post Summorum Pontificum) they say the NO and TLM both though in some places priest-friars are still learning the latter.

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Posted (edited)

I don't know if you know this order. They're not Franciscans but they do have your name: www.mileschristi.org :) Edited by MandyKhatoon

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[quote name='littlesister' post='1523748' date='May 10 2008, 01:03 AM']The FPO's spun off the CFR's 18-20 years ago. The Sisters were either with them or not too far behind. They went back to the primitive Rule of St. Francis. Cardinal Sean O'Malley (OFM Cap. himself) was Bishop of Fall River at the time and took them in. Number-wise, they were a just a handful to begin with, then a Franciscan from another branch joined them. We attended what were probably the first ordinations for the FPO's in '91 or '92. Their seminary studies were guided by a theology prof from the FI's, who lived close by. There were about six Sisters, and they had a few discerners but no vocations of their own yet.[/quote]

So THAT'S where the CFR's originated from! I really was hoping to learn somehow where their roots are. Thanks!

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[quote name='foolishmortal' post='1715605' date='Nov 30 2008, 10:25 PM']The message is a bit late, but what's the difference between a traditional and a primitive order?

Does anyone have the FPO site? I prefer the TLM, but I guess Fr. Padre Pio did do the NO (just as happily, I don't know).
Is the FI an obedient order? It seems so as I saw two Pope Benedict 16 articles that seemed favorable by the title.

Thanks![/quote]

i'm thinking traditional means more of following the traditional, conservative practices of the Church.. anything that is "how they used to do it" or "how it's always been done" is what they do, from the Mass, to prayers, daily holy hour, Rosary, to activities, etc. they may still drive cars, be active in the community, play music, use computers/tv once in a while, etc.

primitive sounds more like living hardcore like St. Francis did, totally barebones. getting up at midnight to pray, more prayer, more penance, more silence, no driving, no music instruments, no telephones, appliances.. like Fred Flintstone/caveman primitive style. the more i learn about them, the more i wonder if i could do it..

[url="http://www.head-of-holofernes.com/fpos.htm"]http://www.head-of-holofernes.com/fpos.htm[/url]

i have not found any orders that are active/contemplative and have younger vocations that also do the TLM. the only ones i know of that do it occasionally or may do it in the future are the FI and Norbertines. i also adore the TLM, but it is not a deciding factor for me.

the FI are very traditional and extremely obedient to the Magisterium, afaik (i visited). one thing you may appreciate that i noticed - even though they mostly did the NO at one of the friaries, they bring out a kneeler for Communion, following the example of our Holy Father B16. tabernacle is in the center. also on Wednesdays they do the NO in Latin, ad orientem, incense, etc. the TLM is very possible in the near future.

also the founder of the FI was the spiritual son of Padre Pio = Padrio Pio was his spiritual director! they follow St. Maximilian Kolbe, and so are extremely Marian. extreme^3!

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Posted

It is my understanding that in his later years, Padre Pio no longer had good eyesight, so he was given a dispensation to continue saying the masses he had memorized rather than to change anything. So, I really doubt he said the Novus Ordo mass or even the transitional one. That is not to say that there are not many saintly priests living today who say the Novus Ordo mass.

Obviously, you want to join an order that is obedient to the Magisterium and authentically Catholic. I am pretty sure that all three of these groups qualify for that in spades: CFRs, FPOs and FI. The first two probably do not have the Tridentine mass as part of their regular practices, though.



What makes the FPOs unique is their radical poverty. They do not drive cars or fly in airplanes - if they want to get somewhere, they hitchhike. Even if that 'somewhere' is in Central America.... They beg for their food each day. They do not have buildings for ministry, but rather have their apostolate make use of whatever buildings the church has available. They do not have money - as individuals or as an order.

This is what makes them 'primitive' - they seek to live St. Francis' life of holy poverty as authentically as possible. It is radical and hardcore, and [i]definitely[/i] not for everyone. They are awesome, though. The ones I've met are deeply holy men.

The CFRs, while seeking to renew an authentic Franciscan spirit, do not take their poverty to such extremes (though they do live out their vow of poverty in a pretty real way!). They also (whilst having a vibrant prayer life) are more active, not [i]as[/i] contemplative as the FPOs. Really, they are both great groups, and come out of the Capuchin Franciscan tradition.


I have not met the FIs, so I won't say much about them, except that having the spiritual inheritence of Padre Pio and Maximillian Kolbe is pretty awesome!

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CFR, FPO, and FI are in my top choices as far as friars, the Norbertines (specifically at St. Michael's Abbey in Silverado, CA www.abbeynews.com) and FSSP as far as canon regulars. these seem to be, next to the dioceses, attracting the most young-adult/active/contemplative vocations in the country.

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The FSSP are canons regular?

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[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1753637' date='Jan 17 2009, 01:31 AM']The FSSP are canons regular?[/quote]

"FSSP is not a religious order. According to Canon law, the FSSP is a "Clerical Society of Apostolic Life of Pontifical Right." It is not an Institute of Consecrated Life, and members take no religious vows, making the same promises of chastity and obedience as diocesan priests and, in addition, swear an oath as members of the Society. The Fraternity's Pontifical right status means that it has been established by the Pope and is answerable only to him in terms of their operation (through the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei), rather than to local bishops. A local bishop still governs the fraternity's work within his respective diocese. In this sense its organization and administrative reporting status are similar to those of religious orders of pontifical right such as the Jesuits and Dominicans. (wikipedia)"

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I just bumped into some FPOs last week, hitchhiking from their hermitage (about 30 mi. from Brattleboro) back to Lawrence after a 2 week silent retreat. They are no longer in Emittsburg; they send their friars to the seminary in Boston now, I think.

The FPOs have some freedom to live such extreme poverty because they are not given the same status in canon law as other more established religious orders.

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