Supporting The Poor Reduces Abortions.

[geetarplayer]

[quote name='flip' post='1667233' date='Sep 30 2008, 10:09 PM']I agree! No matter how they act, we still need to love and support them. Just today I was reading Scripture and came upon the story of the prostitute about to be stoned. Jesus didn't chastise her - he loved her. He saved her.[/quote]
Like the Missionaries of Crarity and their work with AIDS patients. No judgment, just mercy.

I like where this topic is going. At the same time, I still think something else needs to be done to end abortion, not just reduce it. Poverty, as we said, accounts for about half of abortions in the US.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='flip' post='1667233' date='Sep 30 2008, 07:09 PM']I agree! No matter how they act, we still need to love and support them. Just today I was reading Scripture and came upon the story of the prostitute about to be stoned. Jesus didn't chastise her - he loved her. He saved her.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
in a way he did chastise her, he said, (paraphrasing), 'women, does no one condemn you?' 'no' was the reply. 'then neither do i. go and sin no more.'

i think the 'sin no more' part is pretty clear.

[Majella]

[quote name='SpareTime' post='1665928' date='Sep 29 2008, 02:19 PM']Please, provide the proof! I have never in my life heard of abstinence causing cancer! Who the heck have you been listening to?

I can't speak for " religions all over the world" or if they live marriages "just as healthy" as Catholic marriages, but I'd like to know why protestants seem much more likely to get divorced and remarried than Catholics.[/quote]

As an atheist (on the pill} to a converted Catholic, the greatest blessing for me has to be the absence of pressure to (limit my family" i.e. to contracept!!!!
I am a mother of 12 children, my 1st grandchild due next Feb.
I only meant to have two children, but the Catholic Church gave me the courage to have more!!
Deo Gratias!!!!

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote name='Seven77' post='1666917' date='Sep 30 2008, 12:47 PM']what about the poor who are neither irresponsible or loose? many poor people are poor through no fault of their own. and also [i]what about[/i] those who choose not to delay gratification? we should help them too right? i mean we have these buildings called 'homes for unwed mothers'...no one asks if it's their fault.[/quote]

i'm all for charity having it's place.
i'm only for the gov intervening when it's a fundamental right, or there's an exigent circumstance. if people are dying and charity's not doing what it should, then the gov can get involved, exigency.

i classify much things like basic health care if you're willing to work and can't get aheard bc of the way society is structured etc as a fundamental right. being poor alone isn't enough to classify as a fundamental right unless there's other fundametal problems that caused it other than misfortune etc.

you always have to balance the policy of 1. charity and the local level has to necessarily have its role to not impede God's work through the people, not beurocracy 2. you don't want to engage in theft by taxes. it's only not theft if the tax is justified.

Edited October 1, 2008 by dairygirl4u2c

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1665845' date='Sep 28 2008, 05:22 PM']Fifty-four percent of women who have abortions had used a contraceptive method (usually the condom or the pill) during the month they became pregnant. Among those women, 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users report having used their method inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users report correct use.[9][/quote]

this only shows that people don't use BC right.
some BC is better than none.

i'm not sure this statistic means anything without more information on how many were seeking to get pregnant by non-BC or didn't have any.
if there's 10000 on BC and 1000 on non-BC, then the above stat only means 1000 on BC and 1000 not on BC got pregnant. look at all the non-pregnant BC's. that means BC is actually more beneficial. this scenario seems most plausible considering the contraceptive culture we have.
that means cmother didn't know what she was citing, how to interpret it, and this stat is more in favor of those who say teaching BC is most effective.

i'll cite this in that other thread i'm talking about this.

[SpareTime]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1665933' date='Sep 28 2008, 08:27 PM'][url="http://www.forbes.com/2003/10/08/cz_af_1008health.html"]http://www.forbes.com/2003/10/08/cz_af_1008health.html[/url]

Furthermore there are more religions than protestant. Do you have any evidence that Catholics who renounce Birth Control enjoy a higher rate of marital happiness than all other groups?[/quote]

Research that people who do not use contraception have better marriages, yes:[url="http://www.chastity.com/research/index.php?id=41"]http://www.chastity.com/research/index.php?id=41[/url]along with TONS of other research showing just contraception and condoms are not the answer! Take your time responding. I would imagine that huge amount of links and reading will take a while to thoroughly read and refute.

Edited October 1, 2008 by SpareTime

[SpareTime]

[url="http://www.ehealthmd.com/library/prostatecancer/PCA_causes.html"]http://www.ehealthmd.com/library/prostatec...PCA_causes.html[/url]
[url="http://www.medicinenet.com/prostate_cancer/page2.htm"]http://www.medicinenet.com/prostate_cancer/page2.htm[/url]
[url="http://hcd2.bupa.co.uk/fact_sheets/Mosby_factsheets/prostate_cancer.html#3"]http://hcd2.bupa.co.uk/fact_sheets/Mosby_f...e_cancer.html#3[/url]
[url="http://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/tc/prostate-cancer-cause"]http://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/tc/pr...te-cancer-cause[/url]
[url="http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/prostate-cancer/DS00043/DSECTION=causes"]http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/prostate-...DSECTION=causes[/url]
[url="http://cancer.about.com/od/prostatecancer/a/risksandcauses.htm"]http://cancer.about.com/od/prostatecancer/...ksandcauses.htm[/url] all these links and not a one of them gives even an honorable mention to your claim of cause of prostate cancer!
and most importantly [url="http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/291/13/1578"]http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/291/13/1578[/url] "Ejaculation frequency was not statistically significantly associated with risk of advanced prostate cancer.

Conclusions Our results suggest that ejaculation frequency is not related to increased risk of prostate cancer."

[Socrates]

After contraception became much more effective and widely used since the '60s, the number of abortions soared.
The evidence is that, as the Pope predicted, the "contraceptive mentality" led to a "culture of death" in which human life took a back-seat to pleasure and convenience.

The idea that contraceptives are the cure for abortion is demonstrably false.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1665933' date='Sep 28 2008, 08:27 PM'][url="http://www.forbes.com/2003/10/08/cz_af_1008health.html"]http://www.forbes.com/2003/10/08/cz_af_1008health.html[/url]

Furthermore there are more religions than protestant. Do you have any evidence that Catholics who renounce Birth Control enjoy a higher rate of marital happiness than all other groups?[/quote]
I'd have to look it up, but the evidence is there, and has been cited many times. Couples who do not contracept are statistically much less likely to divorce, and are more likely to be happy in their marriages than those who do.
And this jives with what I've seen among the orthodox Catholic families I know personally who reject contraception and have large families. They are all overall happy marriages, and none are divorced.

(Note: I am talking specifically about families who don't contracept. Citing divorce statistics about Catholics vs. protestants will not disprove my point as most "Catholics" today are "cafeteria Catholics" who ignore or reject the Church's teaching on contraception and other sexual matters.)

[Hassan]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1668860' date='Oct 2 2008, 10:01 PM']I'd have to look it up, but the evidence is there, and has been cited many times. Couples who do not contracept are statistically much less likely to divorce, and are more likely to be happy in their marriages than those who do.
And this jives with what I've seen among the orthodox Catholic families I know personally who reject contraception and have large families. They are all overall happy marriages, and none are divorced.

(Note: I am talking specifically about families who don't contracept. Citing divorce statistics about Catholics vs. protestants will not disprove my point as most "Catholics" today are "cafeteria Catholics" who ignore or reject the Church's teaching on contraception and other sexual matters.)[/quote]


perhapse there is something to it

[CatherineM]

I had someone tell me once that people with a large number of kids don't divorce because the women don't want to have to handle all those kids by themselves, and the men don't want to pay child support times 6 or 10. So in a way, our limiting the number of kids we have, makes divorce easier.

[Seven77]

[quote name='flip' post='1667233' date='Sep 30 2008, 09:09 PM']I agree! No matter how they act, we still need to love and support them. Just today I was reading Scripture and came upon the story of the prostitute about to be stoned. Jesus didn't chastise her - he loved her. He saved her.[/quote]

word

[Seven77]

[quote name='geetarplayer' post='1667238' date='Sep 30 2008, 09:13 PM']Like the Missionaries of Crarity and their work with AIDS patients. No judgment, just mercy.

I like where this topic is going. At the same time, I still think something else needs to be done to end abortion, not just reduce it. Poverty, as we said, accounts for about half of abortions in the US.[/quote]

The way I understand it is that reducing abortion is not some kind of substitute for ending it. Helping the poor is about changing hearts and minds as well and that is primarily how we are going abolish abortion. At the same time we certainly have recourse to the other means of trying to stop it.

Imagine this--- Christians who are pro-life through and through and vote that way, who exude great charity for the materially poor while while working to stop the killing of the poorest of the poor. Having more people out there like this can do much to change hearts and minds.

[-I---Love]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1665842' date='Sep 28 2008, 06:16 PM']It is unfair to make that assumption about PP. Their founder was a bigot (not just racist, she hated Catholic too). Black populations are generally poorer and make up a large section of the abortion seeking population. I don't see the proximity racist as much as simply practical.

I would prefer to stick to the link of Abortion and Poverty.

Catholics must make a choice, as much as I generally loath Sean Hannity he is right in supporting Birth Control to reduce Abortions. If you wish Abortion rates to go down you need to attack the problem at the roots. Help eradicate poverty, put better sex ed in the schools and encourage respect for life.[/quote]

I do believe this is the first time I have heard the word practical used in reference to making sure that black women can kill their children. The foundation of anything usually leads to the fruits. Margaret Sanger (the founder) refered to blacks as a "genetically inferior race."

You say one must attack the root problem to reduce abortion rates. Is the root problem people not using contraceptives? Or is it people treating sex as a pasttime? Is it people not understanding what sex is?

The state (in public schools) has no business educating children on the matter of sex. It should be left up to the parents whose right and responsibility it is.

[quote name='Hassan' post='1665843' date='Sep 28 2008, 06:18 PM']Contraception is very effective. If you wish to oppose BC by fiat that is your right, but the science is there.[/quote]

Find me a real statistic that states contraception is 99% effective when used correctly. Only NFP can boast such rates.

[quote name='Hassan' post='1665924' date='Sep 28 2008, 09:17 PM']According to Catholics.

Religions all over the world allow Birth Control and those religion's respective followers often enjoy marriages jus as healthy as Catholic marriages.

it can cause some problems, abstinance can corelate with higher rates of prostrate cancer.[/quote]

Some problems is an understatement! What about the many woman who can't get pregnant after 12 years on the pill and now married want children? What about the link to breast cancer. What abou the emotional problems? Do none of thse problems count?

[quote name='Hassan' post='1665933' date='Sep 28 2008, 09:27 PM'][url="http://www.forbes.com/2003/10/08/cz_af_1008health.html"]http://www.forbes.com/2003/10/08/cz_af_1008health.html[/url]

Furthermore there are more religions than protestant. Do you have any evidence that Catholics who renounce Birth Control enjoy a higher rate of marital happiness than all other groups?[/quote]

ROFL ... I'm guessing you've never met a practicing Catholic couple.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='-I---Love' post='1670998' date='Oct 5 2008, 06:35 PM']ROFL ... I'm guessing you've never met a practicing Catholic couple.[/quote]

Yep, ridiculously happy here.