Hassan Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 [quote name='jckinsman' post='1674856' date='Oct 11 2008, 01:50 AM']Why are we rewarding people for getting in over there heads in debt. My husband and I play by the rules we pay our bills, we have a mortgage and some debt because we have been eaten alive in gas and medical bills.We still pay our bills. We lost our retirement in the stocks.We are middle america. Why would we rush in and buy all of these people out without consequence for there actions? ( I mean everyone involved,from the top)Then My husband foots the bill!!! This does not make sense. What do you think that is going to do to middle america? There are no tax cuts here people,we are simple voting on more taxes or rearrangement of taxes. I would rather rearrange(yes,cut out and put that money to better use,like not strapping our children with "too much debt") and leave our military alone.(we are going to need them) [/quote] You're husband does not foot the bill. We all do. I do as well. How about this, help people keep their homes and stop paying the military so much or the State Department etc. [url="http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/arms/reports/israel050602.html"]How about we spend a little less on Israeli military[/url] and use that money to help keep banks open and people in their homes? I don't understand this fettish with funding the military. The military gets enough money, our military get's the highest percentage of the GDP of any military on earth. Let's fund the military enough to secure our defense. Anything else is to much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilCook009 Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 [quote name='Justin86' post='1675356' date='Oct 11 2008, 09:19 PM']As do I. However, there is nothing more socialistic then the idea that the government should own big business, and and constantly throw money at them every time they are about to fail. It's not going to work. We're going to just keep giving them tax dollars until we, the middle class, work just to support their corrupt practices. It's an absurd idea, and that is why the vast majority are adamantly against it. Two things I fail to understand about your logic: You agree that you want responsibility in our laws, however you favor the bailout? How is rewarding corrupt corporations for their behavior at all being responsible? As for attaching my faith to this I fail to see how that is immature. I plainly explained how this is the direct result of our greed, and that's definitely not a Christian principal.[/quote] This is the last thing I am going to say about faith. I realize that this problem steems from greed, which is not very Christian. But I also realize that not every one in this country is Christina. Many people don't see greed and uncheck ambition as a bad thing. Also the bail out bill has states that no company should be aloud to gain from this. So no this the bail out is not rewarding corrupt corporations, but trying to save the corporations so we don't have mass unemployment. I agree that I am not really happy about the goverment owning big corporations, but these are extenuating circumstances. The goverment is suppose to protect the people yes? Well then why is it a bad thing that the goverment protects the people from corrupt companies? I have one question for you, would you be against some regulation of the free market, something akin to speed limits on the road. That seems to me like something we could agree on, regulations to prevent people from getting to greedy and destorying the economy fot the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin86 Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 [quote name='Hassan' post='1675371' date='Oct 12 2008, 12:35 PM']You're husband does not foot the bill. We all do. I do as well. How about this, help people keep their homes and stop paying the military so much or the State Department etc. [url="http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/arms/reports/israel050602.html"]How about we spend a little less on Israeli military[/url] and use that money to help keep banks open and people in their homes? I don't understand this fettish with funding the military. The military gets enough money, our military get's the highest percentage of the GDP of any military on earth. Let's fund the military enough to secure our defense. Anything else is to much.[/quote] So reward people who decided to live outside their means? No, I don't think so. As for the military, WWII taught us we can't just have a military that defends our own borders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 [quote name='Hassan' post='1675371' date='Oct 11 2008, 09:35 PM']You're husband does not foot the bill. We all do. I do as well. How about this, help people keep their homes and stop paying the military so much or the State Department etc. [url="http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/arms/reports/israel050602.html"]How about we spend a little less on Israeli military[/url] and use that money to help keep banks open and people in their homes?[/quote] Why should I be paying to keep anyone in their houses (note: these deadbeats will not be homeless--they can go back to renting like everyone else in their income bracket) when I'm stuck in rental hell? [quote]I don't understand this fettish with funding the military. The military gets enough money, our military get's the highest percentage of the GDP of any military on earth. Let's fund the military enough to secure our defense. Anything else is to much.[/quote] The reason why our military gets the highest percentage of GDP of any military on earth is because, SURPRISE!!! we support the militarie of all our allies. WE have bases all over Europe, which cuts the strain of these countries defending themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 [quote name='Justin86' post='1675380' date='Oct 11 2008, 09:41 PM'][b]So reward people who decided to live outside their means?[/b] No, I don't think so. As for the military, WWII taught us we can't just have a military that defends our own borders.[/quote] That's the modus operandi of the world these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 [quote name='Justin86' post='1675380' date='Oct 11 2008, 10:41 PM']So reward people who decided to live outside their means?[/quote] Not everyone being kicked out decided to buy a $500,000 home with a $30,000 income. A lot of these decisions should be made on a more individual basis. Everyone should have to pay what they owe, however if restructuring a mortgage will help the economey collapse I am for it. If someone was manipulated or lied to by a loan officer, then yes, they should get help. [quote]No, I don't think so. As for the military, WWII taught us we can't just have a military that defends our own borders.[/quote] How so, please be specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin86 Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 [quote name='Hassan' post='1675390' date='Oct 12 2008, 12:49 PM']If someone was manipulated or lied to by a loan officer, then yes, they should get help.[/quote] I agree they should get help: they should be told to balance a budget the next time they apply for a loan. [quote]How so, please be specific.[/quote] You don't really think we can be neutral in future wars do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 [quote name='Hassan' post='1675390' date='Oct 11 2008, 09:49 PM']Not everyone being kicked out decided to buy a $500,000 home with a $30,000 income. A lot of these decisions should be made on a more individual basis. Everyone should have to pay what they owe, however if restructuring a mortgage will help the economey collapse I am for it. If someone was manipulated or lied to by a loan officer, then yes, they should get help. How so, please be specific.[/quote] Should the government restructure my car loan? It's worth less than I owe. How about my student loan? I dropped out, I have no degree, I am getting no benefit from the amount I borrowed--restructure that as well. I also bought some food on my credit card--that's all gone, completely worthless--restructure that too! The list goes on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilCook009 Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 [quote name='Hassan' post='1675371' date='Oct 11 2008, 09:35 PM']You're husband does not foot the bill. We all do. I do as well. How about this, help people keep their homes and stop paying the military so much or the State Department etc. [url="http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/arms/reports/israel050602.html"]How about we spend a little less on Israeli military[/url] and use that money to help keep banks open and people in their homes? I don't understand this fettish with funding the military. The military gets enough money, our military get's the highest percentage of the GDP of any military on earth. Let's fund the military enough to secure our defense. Anything else is to much.[/quote] Hassen I am with you on this one. I think America has become too agressive overall, the last two wars we have gone in to (Vietnam and Iraq) have turn out less than ideal. I understand that we want to be seen as the shining knights of the world that will save opressed people. I am fine with that, but at the moment America is seen as a bully becuase the politicians don't think through the plans. In WWII we learned that we shouldn't be sitting on out butts until some one attacks, but we have done a 360 and now we try to save people who don't want our help, we need to find a happy medium! We need to cut military spending to something more resonable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 [quote name='T-Bone _' post='1675384' date='Oct 11 2008, 10:46 PM']Why should I be paying to keep anyone in their houses[/quote] So that you will not be unemployed? How's that for a reason? [quote](note: these deadbeats will not be homeless--they can go back to renting like everyone else in their income bracket) when I'm stuck in rental hell?[/quote] Hey chap, they are not all dead beats. Let's take a real life example. A military vet returns from Iraq, his vet status gives him access to optimal loan options, his loan officer does not direct him towards those loans but offers him a common loan. The primary problem with the loan is that the individual did not qualify for the loan the officer actually hoked him up with. The loan officer lied about the vet's income to get him preferable rates although the mortage was structured for someone makeing significantly more than the vet. The vet was not a "deadbeat" he was an individual who got screwed over by a loan officer. Your generalizations do not take such instances into account. [quote]The reason why our military gets the highest percentage of GDP of any military on earth is because, SURPRISE!!! we support the militarie of all our allies.[/quote] SUPRISE!!! That's my point. As much as you dislike helping some "deadbeat" keep their home, I dislike buying the Israeli's cluster bombs to ire into crowded urban areas. Or proping up authoritarian arab regimes. [quote]WE have bases all over Europe, which cuts the strain of these countries defending themselves.[/quote] Yes, and we just do it out of the goodness of our hearts right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilCook009 Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 [quote name='Justin86' post='1675392' date='Oct 11 2008, 09:52 PM']I agree they should get help: they should be told to balance a budget the next time they apply for a loan. You don't really think we can be neutral in future wars do you?[/quote] Have you ever applied for a loan on a house there are hundreds of pages of leagal jargon, at some point you have to trust you loan officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 [quote name='Justin86' post='1675392' date='Oct 11 2008, 10:52 PM']I agree they should get help: they should be told to balance a budget the next time they apply for a loan.[/quote] That's cute [quote]You don't really think we can be neutral in future wars do you?[/quote] I don't know, you mentioned lessons learned from WWII, I wanted to know what specific lessons those where, what exactly should be the structure of American Foreign Policy that justifies the astronomical ammounts spent on defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 [quote name='lilCook009' post='1675395' date='Oct 11 2008, 11:55 PM']Hassen I am with you on this one. I think America has become too agressive overall, the last two wars we have gone in to (Vietnam and Iraq) have turn out less than ideal. I understand that we want to be seen as the shining knights of the world that will save opressed people. I am fine with that, but at the moment America is seen as a bully becuase the politicians don't think through the plans. In WWII we learned that we shouldn't be sitting on out butts until some one attacks, but we have done a 360 and now we try to save people who don't want our help, we need to find a happy medium! We need to cut military spending to something more resonable[/quote] A conservative historian and Army Col. named Andrew J. Bacevich wrote an excelent book you may like "The Limits of Power: The End of American Exceptionalism" It goes in to exacly this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 [quote name='Hassan' post='1675401' date='Oct 11 2008, 10:00 PM']So that you will not be unemployed? How's that for a reason?[/quote] Praytell, how on earth does making someone rent instead of me buying them a house keep me employed? [quote]Hey chap, they are not all dead beats. Let's take a real life example. A military vet returns from Iraq, his vet status gives him access to optimal loan options, his loan officer does not direct him towards those loans but offers him a common loan. The primary problem with the loan is that the individual did not qualify for the loan the officer actually hoked him up with. The loan officer lied about the vet's income to get him preferable rates although the mortage was structured for someone makeing significantly more than the vet. The vet was not a "deadbeat" he was an individual who got screwed over by a loan officer. Your generalizations do not take such instances into account.[/quote] He's not paying his debts, ergo, he's a deadbeat. [quote]SUPRISE!!! That's my point. Yes, and we just do it out of the goodness of our hearts right?[/quote] So you admit we need to spend more money than average on our military. Thank you. (I guess that invalidates your point there though.) [quote]As much as you dislike helping some "deadbeat" keep their home, I dislike buying the Israeli's cluster bombs to ire into crowded urban areas. Or proping up authoritarian arab regimes.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 [quote name='lilCook009' post='1675402' date='Oct 11 2008, 10:00 PM']Have you ever applied for a loan on a house there are hundreds of pages of leagal jargon, at some point you have to trust you loan officer.[/quote] Hundreds of pages of legal jargon? Any home loan I've seen was 10-12 pages, tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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