Can Catholics Back Pro-choice Obama?

[homeschoolmom]

[Didymus]

How is a vote for Obama anti-Catholic, aside from the life standpoint?

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1678021' date='Oct 14 2008, 11:56 PM']Sadly, his message about there being no "groups" in America excludes an entire class of citizens, i.e., the innocent unborn Americans who are our nation's future. He says that one voice can change a state, and one voice can change a nation, but none of that follows if you kill the person whose voice it is by murdering them in the womb.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
well said.

also, i heard the statistic of how 6 million 18-21 year olds are missing voters in this year's election due to abortion.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Didymus' post='1678296' date='Oct 15 2008, 03:52 PM']How is a vote for Obama anti-Catholic, aside from the life standpoint?[/quote]

He is also for same sex marriage and he is for creating dependency on welfare.

A Catholic voter is called (by the Vatican and US Bishops) to vote for, in order...
[list=1]
[*]Life
[*]Family
[*]Social Justice (programs that do not create dependency - Carter is a prime example of what is against Catholic social justice teaching)
[*]Global Solidarity (We are all one family)
[/list]

Obama is also racist. He makes a few racist remarks in his books, he is a disciple of Rev Wright... He has given money to a front man for the PLO (a terrorist group).

Check out: [url="http://conservablogs.com/velvethammer/2008/05/05/connecting-the-dots-the-barack-obama-bill-ayers-connection"]http://conservablogs.com/velvethammer/2008...yers-connection[/url]


God Bless,
ironmonk

[DannyBoy]

[quote name='jckinsman' post='1678053' date='Oct 15 2008, 03:19 AM']Yes! The big BO[/quote]

Taken out of context or not. Your sentiments and those of the person with whom you respond are so unfortunate.

Edited October 17, 2008 by DannyBoy

[DannyBoy]

[quote name='TheTruth' post='1677638' date='Oct 14 2008, 11:05 PM']Yes, we can.... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmUUYo9o9eg&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmUUYo9o9eg...feature=related[/url][/quote]

Yes We Can...

...end the war in Iraq.

...do better for women, and men, members of underrepresented groups, believers and non-believers, extremists (including Catholic extremists), heretics, the passive minded, families, soldiers, and all people.

...save a nation endebted because of unfortunate, oil driven economic policies.

...do better for Joe six-pack, Joe the plumber by uniting all peoples under a banner of hope and Love. Not haste, and gee golly, not a hockey mom.

...change America for the better.

And Yes, a confirmed, devout Catholic such as I Can exercise my God-given right to vote for the candidate whom I, in conscience and heart believe to have the best chance to unite a nation. A man who is a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ and whose faith no one has the right to challenge. Challenge yourselves.

Challenge...and change America!

[kamiller42]

[quote name='DannyBoy' post='1679844' date='Oct 17 2008, 01:32 PM']Challenge...and change America![/quote]
Don't get suckered by flowery speeches. If you want to change, ask yourself what kind of change do you want? If you want to unite, ask yourself what you are uniting with? When you answer those questions, you will find Obama is motion in the wrong direction.

[DannyBoy]

Thanks for the feedback. I voted for GW Bush twice on the premise that his stance on moral issues, especially his stance on abortion, was right. I was a one issue voter in my younger days, due to being brainwashed from the pulpit. I can't put into words how regrettful that I feel to be one of the many responsible for electing one of the least successful presidents in American history.

Back to the current, since this is a Christian forum, if there's one candiate who I've heard speak about their love of Jesus Christ more deeply, eloquently, and whole heartedly its Barack Obama. His platform on abortion aside what is it about him that constitutes him being the "wrong direction"?

Extremists in both the republican and democratic parties represent the worst that America has to offer. I consider John McCain and Barack Obama to both be fairly moderate. I consider Obama to be the man with the best chance to part with the puppet strings and move America forward. Forward is the right and only direction.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='DannyBoy' post='1679882' date='Oct 17 2008, 02:37 PM']Thanks for the feedback. I voted for GW Bush twice on the premise that his stance on moral issues, especially his stance on abortion, was right. I was a one issue voter in my younger days, due to being brainwashed from the pulpit. I can't put into words how regrettful that I feel to be one of the many responsible for electing one of the least successful presidents in American history.[/quote]
You were not brainwashed. You were informed of the issues and made a decision based on the information you knew. You may have new information that is causing you to doubt your educated decisions. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say. The questions to ask now are 1) how much validity is there to new information you have? 2) how do you define a successful president?

Why do you think GB is not successful? Why do you think McCain would take the same course?

[quote]Back to the current, since this is a Christian forum, if there's one candiate who I've heard speak about their love of Jesus Christ more deeply, eloquently, and whole heartedly its Barack Obama. His platform on abortion aside what is it about him that constitutes him being the "wrong direction"?[/quote]
I disagree with Obama, but I cannot judge his love of Christ. I can judge his obedience to Christ by his actions or inaction. His support of infanticide and abortion on demand is not a good reflection of Christian behavior.

I think McCain has a love for Jesus too. When asked about it at Saddleback, [url="http://www.rickwarrennews.com/transcript/civil_forum_transcript-05.txt"]he made it clear[/url]. I think he mentions POW experience when talking about his faith because many, including many characters in the Bible, find God or Jesus through adversity. For him, Jesus was the calm in a storm, the constant, the source of comfort, the belief all will be fine in time.

The works of the candidates are a testimony of their faith. How has their faith transformed and continue to transform them? If we look at the records of the two, we find McCain has given more to charity than Obama, adopted orphans, and worked and supported pro-life causes. He is still campaigning on a pro-life platform and proudly saying life begins at conception when the pundits say pro-choice is what the majority wants. He put personal ambition aside to serve our country in a dangerous war. All of these sacrifices and more are excellent testimony of his faith.

Neither candidate is perfect. I can only judge how each is working to live out their faith and how they allow Jesus to transform their lives. I think McCain has a wonderful record of transformation. I don't see much with Obama, which is odd given the love he learned from Rev Wright for the 20 plus years he was there.

[quote]Extremists in both the republican and democratic parties represent the worst that America has to offer. I consider John McCain and Barack Obama to both be fairly moderate. I consider Obama to be the man with the best chance to part with the puppet strings and move America forward. Forward is the right and only direction.[/quote]
You want to part from the puppet strings, but Obama is the candidate on puppet strings. He was the second highest paid off politicians by Fannie Mae, one of two pillars in the house of cards in the credit market. He has associated with extremists, and they seem to have influenced him. He has a 100% rating with NARAL. He has voted 99.9% with this party.

McCain is the one who has shown the independent streak. Sometimes for good. Sometimes for bad. He earned the title of "maverick" not because he made it up. His colleagues gave it to him because he goes with what he thinks is right.

Obama is not the right direction because he is anti-life and a socialist. Don't underestimate the importance of "life." It was placed first in the phrase "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" for a reason. Order matters. Obama's socialist view that government is the center of our solutions discounts the power of the American people. He believes tax policy exists to spread the wealth. I failed to find that in the Constitution. He believes health care is a right and not a responsibility. A right? I failed to find that in the Constitution. (Rights outlined in the Constitution are not a list of things we are allowed to do. It is a list of limits on the government.) Obama's philosophies, how he sees the role of the government and the citizens, is wrong for America.

Edited October 17, 2008 by kamiller42

[DannyBoy]

[quote name='kamiller42' post='1679923' date='Oct 17 2008, 04:28 PM']You were not brainwashed. You were informed of the issues and made a decision based on the information you knew. You may have new information that is causing you to doubt your educated decisions. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say. The questions to ask now are 1) how much validity is there to new information you have? 2) how do you define a successful president?

Why do you think GB is not successful? Why do you think McCain would take the same course?


I disagree with Obama, but I cannot judge his love of Christ. I can judge his obedience to Christ by his actions or inaction. His support of infanticide and abortion on demand is not a good reflection of Christian behavior.

I think McCain has a love for Jesus too. When asked about it at Saddleback, [url="http://www.rickwarrennews.com/transcript/civil_forum_transcript-05.txt"]he made it clear[/url]. I think he mentions POW experience when talking about his faith because many, including many characters in the Bible, find God or Jesus through adversity. For him, Jesus was the calm in a storm, the constant, the source of comfort, the belief all will be fine in time.

The works of the candidates are a testimony of their faith. How has their faith transformed and continue to transform them? If we look at the records of the two, we find McCain has given more to charity than Obama, adopted orphans, and worked and supported pro-life causes. He is still campaigning on a pro-life platform and proudly saying life begins at conception when the pundits say pro-choice is what the majority wants. He put personal ambition aside to serve our country in a dangerous war. All of these sacrifices and more are excellent testimony of his faith.

Neither candidate is perfect. I can only judge how each is working to live out their faith and how they allow Jesus to transform their lives. I think McCain has a wonderful record of transformation. I don't see much with Obama, which is odd given the love he learned from Rev Wright for the 20 plus years he was there.


You want to part from the puppet strings, but Obama is the candidate on puppet strings. He was the second highest paid off politicians by Fannie Mae, one of two pillars in the house of cards in the credit market. He has associated with extremists, and they seem to have influenced him. He has a 100% rating with NARAL. He has voted 99.9% with this party.

McCain is the one who has shown the independent streak. Sometimes for good. Sometimes for bad. He earned the title of "maverick" not because he made it up. His colleagues gave it to him because he goes with what he thinks is right.

Obama is not the right direction because he is anti-life and a socialist. Don't underestimate the importance of "life." It was placed first in the phrase "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" for a reason. Order matters. Obama's socialist view that government is the center of our solutions discounts the power of the American people. He believes tax policy exists to spread the wealth. I failed to find that in the Constitution. He believes health care is a right and not a responsibility. A right? I failed to find that in the Constitution. (Rights outlined in the Constitution are not a list of things we are allowed to do. It is a list of limits on the government.) Obama's philosophies, how he sees the role of the government and the citizens, is wrong for America.[/quote]

I mean no disrespect in the brevity of my response but you are not going to evangelize me here. It just isn't going to happen. I love you as a fellow Catholic Christian. We'll see what happens on November 4th. As a representative of those Catholics who think we need to move in a new direction I hope that my candidate wins. Its time for a change! YES WE CAN!

[kamiller42]

[quote name='DannyBoy' post='1680023' date='Oct 17 2008, 06:40 PM']I mean no disrespect in the brevity of my response but you are not going to evangelize me here. It just isn't going to happen. I love you as a fellow Catholic Christian. We'll see what happens on November 4th. As a representative of those Catholics who think we need to move in a new direction I hope that my candidate wins. Its time for a change! YES WE CAN![/quote]
You are going to get change with either candidate. You need to know what you are changing to. It appears you don't know.

P.S. This is not about evangelization. It's about being an informed Catholic voter.

Edited October 17, 2008 by kamiller42

[DannyBoy]

[quote name='kamiller42' post='1680031' date='Oct 17 2008, 07:53 PM']You are going to get change with either candidate. You need to know what you are changing to. It appears you don't know.[/quote]

I respectfully disagree. McCain = More of the Same.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='DannyBoy' post='1680032' date='Oct 17 2008, 06:54 PM']I respectfully disagree. McCain = More of the Same.[/quote]
Why did McCain's fellow congressmen give him the name of "Maverick?" McCain and Obama have voted the same on certain bills in the senate. Obama is the same as McCain?

Is there a particular issue Bush and McCain agree on that you would like to discuss?

[Seven77]

[quote name='DannyBoy' post='1680023' date='Oct 17 2008, 06:40 PM']YES WE CAN![/quote]

Bob the Builder
Can we fix it
Bob the Builder
Yes, we can

Bob the Builder
Can we fix it
Bob the Builder
Yes, we can

My little cousin loves your show!

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='DannyBoy' post='1679882' date='Oct 17 2008, 03:37 PM']Thanks for the feedback. I voted for GW Bush twice on the premise that his stance on moral issues, especially his stance on abortion, was right. I was a one issue voter in my younger days, due to being brainwashed from the pulpit. I can't put into words how regrettful that I feel to be one of the many responsible for electing one of the least successful presidents in American history.

Back to the current, since this is a Christian forum, if there's one candiate who I've heard speak about their love of Jesus Christ more deeply, eloquently, and whole heartedly its Barack Obama. His platform on abortion aside what is it about him that constitutes him being the "wrong direction"?

Extremists in both the republican and democratic parties represent the worst that America has to offer. I consider John McCain and Barack Obama to both be fairly moderate. I consider Obama to be the man with the best chance to part with the puppet strings and move America forward. Forward is the right and only direction.[/quote]
Satan can probably be eloquent on God as well, but really do you trust his opinion?
Barack Obama is not a christian. Christians think Jesus is the way and the truth and the life, and he doesn't. Plus you CANNOT put "aside" abortion, and pretend his other stances on issues make up for the murder of children. To vote for Obama is to vote for the continued and even increased murder of babies.
Obama doesn't have a moderate bone in his body, anyone who has actually read what he proposes cannot sincerely believe it. Universal health care, the massive transfer of wealth to the UN, the creation of a parallel civilian army are NOT moderate ideas. To vote Obama is to vote for the socialistic destruction of America, and a vote against life.