The Great Communion

[kafka]

http://greatcatholicmonarch.blogspot.com/2009/11/great-communion.html

I suspect this sort of thing, I explain below, occurs in many parishes in the U.S. Perhaps I am wrong yet here is my post:



If we Catholics appreciated the mind-boggling truth and significance of the blistering event of receiving the glorified Body and (in some cases) Blood of Jesus Christ in His adorable sacrament of love, perhaps we would not be so quick to socialize on Sunday when dismissed from Mass as if nothing happened. I soldier on in silence and prayer and am distracted while others file out the Church in talk and laughter. Some do not even have the nerve to leave the chapel area and begin chatting about whatever comes to mind. At this time of year perhaps the football game. In another area of the Church people are buying and selling goods (keep in mind Christ dispelled buyers and sellers from His Temple in severe anger), even eating while still in communion or while another Mass starts. We should not be buying and selling, eating and drinking after Communion or while another Mass is being celebrated in the same building.

Sometimes in the past, I have fallen victim to this spirit of ingratitude, irreverance, etc. I get up and end up running into someone I know and begin talking. No more for me. No more. I have thought about leaving the Church and walking to some silent place outside for my thanksgiving on Sunday, however I soldier on in the Chapel, usually distracted from the noise, though I stay just to set an example, as if trying to hold on to some endangered practice ready to fall into extinction if I dare leave and give into this spirit of frivolity.

Do we realize what has just occured in Holy Communion?
Here is a good quote illustrating my point:

"When the priest says the words Hoc est Corpus meum (For this is my Body), his words fall directly on to the bread and directly transform it into the individual reality of Christ [the substance of bread is changed into the glorified Body of Christ]. But the great sacramental operation does not cease at the local and momentary event. Even children are taught that, throughout the life of each man and the life of the Church and the history of the world, there is only one Mass and one Communion. Christ died once in agony. Peter and Paul receive communion on such and such a day at a particular hour. But these different acts are only the diversely central points in space and time, for our experience. In fact, from the beginning of the Messianic preparation, up till the Parousia, phases of growth of his Church, a single event has been developing in the world: the Incarnation, realisied, in each individual, through the Eucharist.

All the communions of a life-time are one communion.
All the communions of all men now living are one communion.
All the communions of all men, present, past and future, are one communion."

- Teilhard de Chardin Divine Mileau

[JimR-OCDS]

Part of being in a Catholic community is fellowship.

Christ calls us to be a community of friends rather than a community of strangers.

Fellowship after Mass, is sometimes the only fellowship some people experience.

Get over it.

Jim

Edited November 8, 2009 by JimR-OCDS

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='08 November 2009 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1257724006' post='1998459']
Part of being in a Catholic community is fellowship.

Christ calls us to be a community of friends rather than a community of strangers.

Fellowship after Mass, is sometimes the only fellowship some people experience.

[b]Get over it.[/b]

Jim
[/quote]
I love that bit about fellowship and community of friends.

[little_miss_late]

I can understand wanting to be alone in quiet for a while after Mass has ended-- and I can understand being irritated if people are being blatantly disrespectful, or doing something that disrupts another Mass happening in the same building.

But you seem to be saying that everyone who wants to talk and laugh is frivolous and ungrateful. That is a little harsh. I am so grateful for the people in my parish who have taken time out of their day after Mass to introduce themselves and help me feel comfortable in that community.

[Veridicus]

People at my mom's parish rapidly join in cacophpnous self-ebration the moment the recessional ceases. There is no room private devotion in such a social atomosphere. It's almost as if they forget Jesus is still up in the tabernacle...or the recent high school football game was like sooo important omg. At least their at Church on sunday right? Just settle.

[Dave]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='08 November 2009 - 07:46 PM' timestamp='1257724006' post='1998459']
Part of being in a Catholic community is fellowship.

Christ calls us to be a community of friends rather than a community of strangers.

Fellowship after Mass, is sometimes the only fellowship some people experience.

Get over it.

Jim
[/quote]

No one here said that fellowship is a bad thing; quite the opposite!

But there's a time and place for it -- the Church's nave and/or sanctuary isn't it. All socializing should be taken outside or to the social hall.

[StColette]

[quote name='little_miss_late' date='08 November 2009 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1257728368' post='1998509']
I can understand wanting to be alone in quiet for a while after Mass has ended-- and I can understand being irritated if people are being blatantly disrespectful, or doing something that disrupts another Mass happening in the same building.

But you seem to be saying that everyone who wants to talk and laugh is frivolous and ungrateful. That is a little harsh. I am so grateful for the people in my parish who have taken time out of their day after Mass to introduce themselves and help me feel comfortable in that community.
[/quote]




I think Kafka's point is that many Catholics have a bad habit of talking very loudly right after Mass has ended, and they do this talking before exiting the Church or at least before exiting into the gathering space/Narthex. It's very disrespectful to talk in this manner while still in the main body of the Church where others are still trying to pray. While fellowship is very important, it's also very important to be respectful of those who are in prayer (especially when they're in a place designated for prayer). I think Kafka's point is that fellowship does not trump what we have just experienced at Mass, and taking a little extra time after Mass has ended in order to give thanks is a good practice to have. If you don't want to practice this type of prayer after Mass, then please be respectful of those that do and exit the Church before starting to talk.

[AccountDeleted]

I have always been one of those people who find that chatter and social interaction hard at Mass since I am a very quiet sort of person, and even find the sign of peace too much interaction at Mass. I have always tried to see it as a community worshipping together though, and participated as much as possible. But after Mass, all I want to do is spend sometime in Thanksgiving, and not everyone waits until the get outside to start their social time after Mass, so I have found this hard too. Whenever I attend a Novus Ordo Mass however, I do the best I can to fit in and be part of the community.

But now I have started attending the EF (Latin Mass) regularly instead of the Novus Ordo, and I really have found that it gives me what I need. There is no chit-chat before the Mass, the whole focus of the Mass in on God and the priest making the sacrifice at the altar, the consecration and communion. Communion is received the same way by everyone, on the knees and on the tongue, and afterwards, even the recessional is quieter (the hymns seem to be more subdued ones) and then many people stay afterwards for Thanksgiving, although some go outside and chat with the priest or each other.

I think that for those who like all the community aspects of worship, the NO is a good place for them, but for those of us who need more quiet and time alone with God, then the EF is really wonderful. I just feel very grateful that I have the choice because I know the EF isn't offered everywhere.

Edited November 9, 2009 by nunsense

[Veridicus]

[quote name='nunsense' date='08 November 2009 - 09:27 PM' timestamp='1257733625' post='1998588']
I have always been one of those people who find that chatter and social interaction hard at Mass since I am a very quiet sort of person, and even find the sign of peace too much interaction at Mass. I have always tried to see it as a community worshipping together though, and participated as much as possible. But after Mass, all I want to do is spend sometime in Thanksgiving, and not everyone waits until the get outside to start their social time after Mass, so I have found this hard too. Whenever I attend a Novus Ordo Mass however, I do the best I can to fit in and be part of the community.

But now I have started attending the EF (Latin Mass) regularly instead of the Novus Ordo, and I really have found that it gives me what I need. There is no chit-chat before the Mass, the whole focus of the Mass in on God and the priest making the sacrifice at the altar, the consecration and communion. Communion is received the same way by everyone, on the knees and on the tongue, and afterwards, even the recessional is quieter (the hymns seem to be more subdued ones) and then many people stay afterwards for Thanksgiving, although some go outside and chat with the priest or each other.

I think that for those who like all the community aspects of worship, the NO is a good place for them, but for those of us who need more quiet and time alone with God, then the EF is really wonderful. I just feel very grateful that I have the choice because I know the EF isn't offered everywhere.
[/quote]

Agreed. We have an EF Mass in my diocese...once...every third sunday...at one church. Of course it would be difficult to have an EF Mass in a spaceship church or at a Parish where the priest is a whacko hippie so that limits the venue possiblities considerably....

[little_miss_late]

[quote name='StColette' date='08 November 2009 - 09:08 PM' timestamp='1257732485' post='1998580']
I think Kafka's point is that many Catholics have a bad habit of talking very loudly right after Mass has ended, and they do this talking before exiting the Church or at least before exiting into the gathering space/Narthex. It's very disrespectful to talk in this manner while still in the main body of the Church where others are still trying to pray. While fellowship is very important, it's also very important to be respectful of those who are in prayer (especially when they're in a place designated for prayer). I think Kafka's point is that fellowship does not trump what we have just experienced at Mass, and taking a little extra time after Mass has ended in order to give thanks is a good practice to have. If you don't want to practice this type of prayer after Mass, then please be respectful of those that do and exit the Church before starting to talk.
[/quote]

I agree with everything that you are saying here. My impression from the original post, was that the poster thinks that people who are in a joyful or friendly mood after they have left the Mass are somehow not as appreciative of Christ's love as those who are in a solemn and silent mood.

Personally, I tend to be more of the "solemn and silent" type myself... but when I walk outside and see the people socializing it is a really beautiful thing. LOVE is written all over their faces and they want to share it with the other people who have just been with them and had the same experience. Of course they are laughing. I don't think there is anything irreverent about it.

There is a line between asking other people to respect your holy space and judging them because they don't respond to the Mass in a particular way. I didn't read anything in your post about feeling a need to "set an example" for people. For me, that's on the other side of the line. Just my opinion.

[kafka]

[quote name='little_miss_late' date='08 November 2009 - 09:54 PM' timestamp='1257735274' post='1998600']
I agree with everything that you are saying here. My impression from the original post, was that the poster thinks that people who are in a joyful or friendly mood after they have left the Mass are somehow not as appreciative of Christ's love as those who are in a solemn and silent mood.

Personally, I tend to be more of the "solemn and silent" type myself... but when I walk outside and see the people socializing it is a really beautiful thing. LOVE is written all over their faces and they want to share it with the other people who have just been with them and had the same experience. Of course they are laughing. I don't think there is anything irreverent about it.

There is a line between asking other people to respect your holy space and judging them because they don't respond to the Mass in a particular way. I didn't read anything in your post about feeling a need to "set an example" for people. For me, that's on the other side of the line. Just my opinion.
[/quote]
I think you have misread me a bit.

I was suggesting that the Catholic community as a whole should offer a silent and solemn thanksgiving after Mass because of the event of Holy Communion. I am grieving and angry because this is a lost practice. I would feel much better if I were not the only one after my Sunday Mass. It is not a matter of personal feelings or personal devotion. It is a practice that acknowledges the reality that the glorified Christ is present within you and there is a certain way one should act toward this stupendous gift. This practice is a transmission of Sacred Tradition practiced by many Catholics, and Saints for centuries probably dating right back to the Apostles.

I also suggested that buying and selling soon after Communion and/or while a Mass is being celebrated should cease based on the event of Christ cleansing the Temple.

I was also indirectly suggesting that perhaps some Catholics (perhaps more than some) do not believe in the Real Presence anymore. I cannot account for everyone's belief and conscience however there was a poll done recently and the results of the participants was a majority of Catholics who do not believe in the Real Presence anymore. And the actions of the majority after the Holy Communion is received seems to express this.

Edited November 9, 2009 by kafka

[Veridicus]

[quote name='kafka' date='08 November 2009 - 10:37 PM' timestamp='1257737873' post='1998620']


I was suggesting that the Catholic community as a whole should offer a silent and solemn thanksgiving after Mass because of the event of Holy Communion. I am grieving and angry because this is a lost practice.
[/quote]
Add it to the list of lost practices.


[quote name='kafka' date='08 November 2009 - 10:37 PM' timestamp='1257737873' post='1998620']
I was also indirectly suggesting that perhaps some people do not believe in the Real Presence anymore. I cannot account for everyone's belief and conscience however there was a poll done recently and the results of the participants was a majority of Catholics who do not believe in the Real Presence anymore. And the actions of the majority after the Holy Communion is received seems to express this.
[/quote]
I don't think you're far off. I think Sunday worship is a pizza party for a lot of catholics. You gather, sing tacky self-congratulatory songs, get to feel good about hearing a trite sermon acknowleding your efforts to be a decent person concerned with social justice, then you share some grub without ever having been called to think about doctrine or your own sinful existance, then before the silence actually could cause you to consider your own existence and relationshipt to God in a real significant way...the socializing begins on the way to buy scrip and talk about your kids sports team on the way out of the sanctuary.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='kafka' date='08 November 2009 - 10:37 PM' timestamp='1257737873' post='1998620']
I was suggesting that the Catholic community as a whole should offer a silent and solemn thanksgiving after Mass because of the event of Holy Communion.
[/quote]

Actually at this point I would settle for just a solemn thanksgiving DURING the Mass and the event of Holy Communion.

[kafka]

[quote name='Veridicus' date='08 November 2009 - 10:44 PM' timestamp='1257738250' post='1998622']



I don't think you're far off. I think Sunday worship is a pizza party for a lot of catholics. You gather, sing tacky self-congratulatory songs, get to feel good about hearing a trite sermon acknowleding your efforts to be a decent person concerned with social justice, then you share some grub without ever having been called to think about doctrine or your own sinful existance, then before the silence actually could cause you to consider your own existence and relationshipt to God in a real significant way...the socializing begins on the way to buy scrip and talk about your kids sports team on the way out of the sanctuary.
[/quote]
Faith without works is dead, yet works without Faith are also in a way dead. I want to think about this and write a blog on this. As my bishop said the Church is not a Christo-philonthropic enterprise.

[StColette]

[quote name='little_miss_late' date='08 November 2009 - 09:54 PM' timestamp='1257735274' post='1998600']
I agree with everything that you are saying here. My impression from the original post, was that the poster thinks that people who are in a joyful or friendly mood after they have left the Mass are somehow not as appreciative of Christ's love as those who are in a solemn and silent mood.

Personally, I tend to be more of the "solemn and silent" type myself... but when I walk outside and see the people socializing it is a really beautiful thing. LOVE is written all over their faces and they want to share it with the other people who have just been with them and had the same experience. Of course they are laughing. I don't think there is anything irreverent about it.

[/quote]


As Kafka pointed out above, I believe you misinterpreted what he was trying to say. He wasn't saying that people laughing or socializing after Mass is irreverent. I believe it's irreverent to do so while still in the main body of the Church, because it can be disruptive for those at prayer and because what is housed within the main body of the Church. I have no problem with people socializing after Mass, nor do I think that Kafka has an issue with it either. He is merely pointing out the loss of a tradition within the Church. Traditionally people would spend time quietly in prayer for at least a few minutes after Mass had ended. This practice has almost been completely lost today.

I'm usually unable to sit and wait for a while after Mass because I have a one year old who doesn't like sitting still very long and an hour of good/quiet behavior is about all I can get from him lol. The few times I've been able to stay after it is usually met with several interruptions from parishioners asking me about things that can wait until the Church Office opens on Monday. One of the downfalls of working for a Church is that you rarely are able to make it through a single Mass without someone asking something work related when you're not at work.

[quote]There is a line between asking other people to respect your holy space and judging them because they don't respond to the Mass in a particular way.[/quote]

I'm not sure if you're addressing me here or addressing Kafka. I don't think I said anything about people not responding to Mass a particular way. Saying that fellowship does not trump what takes place at Mass doesn't mean they're not responding to Mass. Saying that it's a good practice to wait and pray a little while after Mass doesn't say that they aren't responding to Mass in a particular way. Lots of things are good practices (Liturgy of the Hours, Divine Mercy Chaplet, Rosary, etc) but it doesn't mean that if you don't do those practices that you are less Catholic or haven't responded to Mass.

[quote] I didn't read anything in your post about feeling a need to "set an example" for people. For me, that's on the other side of the line. Just my opinion.[/quote]

Are you referring to my post here or to Kafka's? I find this very confusing if you're responding to my post because I didn't even say I made a habit of staying after Mass. Either way feeling the need to "set an example" isn't a bad thing. I set an example for my husband and he sets an example for me in different areas of our life, including devotional practices. Setting an example can be a good thing as long as it is done with the correct intention, to help others grow in holiness not to make ourselves seem holier than thou.