jiyoung Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 [quote name='Slappo' date='12 November 2009 - 07:32 PM' timestamp='1258068761' post='2001490'] "Society" has "created" gender roles since the beginning of time, why now in the 21st century ought we get rid of them? If it is at the root of every ancient culture then maybe it is meant to be? EDIT: Not to say they should be strict and forbid men to do this and forbid women to do that... but generally speaking... there are gender roles. Men and women are equal not the same, if they aren't the same it means they do different things... genders doing different things = gender roles. It is the woman's gender role to nurse a child... I've never seen a man nurse before and I hope I never do. [/quote] One point: nursing doesn't have so much to do with societally established gender roles as it does biology. A man can't nurse...unless something's really quite wrong. The absolutes are that women are submissive and that men sacrifice as Christ did, as we can see in Ephesians 5. It would be nice if a woman was always able to be the homemaker, as tends to be her instinct, and the man was the breadwinner, but it's not always the case. Perhaps one way a man can sacrifice is by helping out with housework whether or not he's staying at home. But if a man is out of work and his wife is working expects his wife to also handle all of the housework, it's neither fair nor very self-sacrificing--he'd be asking her to work herself to the bone while he did essentially nothing. I think it might be more of a self-sacrifice for a man to be the homemaker, because of the social stigma attached, so it would fit even more with that idea of sacrificing as Christ sacrificed. It's not the ideal, but we can't live in the ideal all the time, and it's reasonable for a woman to expect her husband to do his share of the household chores. You might not realize how hard it is to run a home, and expecting her to do it all herself (especially if she's juggling a job on top of it) is less sticking with gender rules and more expecting the woman to be a sort of indentured slave. So HCF is right to go a little ballistic on you. Ask yourself if it's a desire to adhere to gender roles or just plain laziness that makes you shy away from household chores. Also: I don't necessarily know how to tinker around with cars and such, but I want to learn. A woman can't depend on a man to be there forever to do things for her. I want to be somewhat self-sufficient; what if something happens to my husband? Shouldn't I know how to take care of myself? Back in the day, the solution would be just to marry again. I don't really see marriage as a way to ensure some kind of stability. Nowadays, we have to be able to take care of ourselves. Is it really wrong for a woman to be able to do those things? I mean, I wouldn't mind having a man do those things for me, but all the same I'd like to be able to do it for myself as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='11 November 2009 - 05:39 PM' timestamp='1257986369' post='2000961'] I agree. Stop cleaning. [/quote] Yes! Stop cleaning. But to make up for the messy house get yourself a mechanized holy water dispenser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='12 November 2009 - 08:44 PM' timestamp='1258073052' post='2001536'] Exactly. The point is that these tasks should not be assigned by gender. [/quote] except for breastfeeding and child birth...definately child birth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 [quote name='jiyoung' date='12 November 2009 - 08:20 PM' timestamp='1258075200' post='2001557'] So HCF is right to go [b]a little[/b] ballistic on you. [/quote] You noticed that I was on my best behavior! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missionseeker Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 [quote name='jiyoung' date='12 November 2009 - 08:20 PM' timestamp='1258075200' post='2001557'] One point: nursing doesn't have so much to do with societally established gender roles as it does biology. A man can't nurse...unless something's really quite wrong. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiyoung Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='12 November 2009 - 10:03 PM' timestamp='1258077786' post='2001603'] You noticed that I was on my best behavior! [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Does everyone take EVERYTHING I say out of context today? I never said women shouldn't work. I never said women shouldn't be able to change a tire, fix her car, change the oil, or fix a dryer... That doesn't mean that we should completely get rid of gender roles as HCF said in her post that I replied to. CatherineM: I never said you had your gender roles mixed up... Everyone else: I never said men shouldn't clean the house. My dad was actually the one that kept our house the cleanest when I was a child, and if I were naive enough to think that I could let my fiancee do all the cleaning, then it would be a miserable marriage I was getting myself into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 It's ok Slappo. Not everyone is misunderstanding you. I haven't even been listening to you all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 [quote name='Slappo' date='12 November 2009 - 09:29 PM' timestamp='1258079359' post='2001640'] Does everyone take EVERYTHING I say out of context today? [/quote] Well, you pretty much accused me of sexism in the other thread. So it's only fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' date='12 November 2009 - 06:39 PM' timestamp='1258079963' post='2001658'] Well, you pretty much accused me of sexism in the other thread. So it's only fair. [/quote] No. "When a girl says something is demeaning or offensive everyone jumps when a guy mentions it "no its not, stop being a girl"" Where did I say that you were being sexist? There were 2 other people that jumped on me. It was actually Winchester that said I was being a girl (which if anything, that's sexist, not my post, as it would imply that girls whine/complain/whatever winchester was trying to say, and not guys). Edited November 13, 2009 by Slappo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 [quote name='Slappo' date='12 November 2009 - 09:40 PM' timestamp='1258080039' post='2001661'] , [/quote] Real nice. I caught that before your edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 (edited) The plot thickens......... Who wants to have a giant gender neutral group hug????? (Or are hugs sexist?) Edited November 13, 2009 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='12 November 2009 - 06:42 PM' timestamp='1258080150' post='2001666'] Real nice. I caught that before your edit. [/quote] I didn't realize which post you were referring to, so when I went back and read the other thread I realized it was to my last post there, not my 2nd to last... obviously it needed an edit as I was referring to the wrong posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 [quote name='Slappo' date='12 November 2009 - 09:40 PM' timestamp='1258080039' post='2001661'] No. "When a girl says something is demeaning or offensive everyone jumps when a guy mentions it "no its not, stop being a girl"" Where did I say that you were being sexist? There were 2 other people that jumped on me. It was actually Winchester that said I was being a girl (which if anything, that's sexist, not my post, as it would imply that girls whine/complain/whatever winchester was trying to say, and not guys). [/quote] No, that post does not make your butt look big, Sally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 [quote name='Slappo' date='12 November 2009 - 09:40 PM' timestamp='1258080039' post='2001661'] No. "When a girl says something is demeaning or offensive everyone jumps when a guy mentions it "no its not, stop being a girl"" Where did I say that you were being sexist? There were 2 other people that jumped on me. It was actually Winchester that said I was being a girl (which if anything, that's sexist, not my post, as it would imply that girls whine/complain/whatever winchester was trying to say, and not guys). [/quote] I said you "pretty much" accused me of being sexist, not that you actually did. (I thought we were keeping things in context?) You said my comment was "extremely demeaning" towards men. After you were mocked for your response, KoC jumped in and said that if a man had made a general comment about women - giving an example and adding "or something [b]sexist[/b] like that" - you reply back with "thanks...at least someone understands." How else am I supposed to take that? [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='12 November 2009 - 09:43 PM' timestamp='1258080224' post='2001669'] The plot thickens......... Who wants to have a giant gender neutral group hug????? (Or are hugs sexist?) [/quote] I prefer not to be touched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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