Women Religious Not Complying With Vatican Study

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Raphael' date='27 November 2009 - 09:10 PM' timestamp='1259374257' post='2010479']
When I was working in a parish, we once got a call from someone at the local strip club asking when we'd be giving out the ashes on Ash Wednesday.
[/quote]

Funny how on the holy days when the Church "gives" Catholics something (different than the Precious Body & Blood of course), it really draws catholics out of the woodwork (and strip clubs...).

[Jesus_lol]

i suspect there is something left unsaid, for otherwise why would pretty much ALL the nuns(women religious? they are the same thing right?) be doing the same thing?

it seems like people want to discipline pretty much every nun in america? that is a lot of nuns.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='27 November 2009 - 10:33 PM' timestamp='1259375627' post='2010496']
i suspect there is something left unsaid, for otherwise why would pretty much ALL the nuns(women religious? they are the same thing right?) be doing the same thing?

it seems like people want to discipline pretty much every nun in america? that is a lot of nuns.
[/quote]
It is not all the nuns having an issue, only the vocal dissidents who get/seek publicity.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='27 November 2009 - 06:35 PM' timestamp='1259375730' post='2010498']
It is not all the nuns having an issue, only the vocal dissidents who get/seek publicity.
[/quote]

oh i gathered from the numbers that 99% of the women religious in the study were part of this. thats a lot of vocal dissidents, definitely the majority?

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='28 November 2009 - 01:33 PM' timestamp='1259375627' post='2010496']
i suspect there is something left unsaid, for otherwise why would pretty much ALL the nuns(women religious? they are the same thing right?) be doing the same thing?

it seems like people want to discipline pretty much every nun in america? that is a lot of nuns.
[/quote]


I don't think they all are doing the same thing. There seem to be a group of very traditional sisters, loyal to the Magesterium (belonging to the CMSWR) and then those who are very much radical feminists with an agenda to push about women's rights in the Church. I think the discipline is easy, ask them to obey Rome, or stop being religious! Simple.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='28 November 2009 - 01:37 PM' timestamp='1259375831' post='2010499']
oh i gathered from the numbers that 99% of the women religious in the study were part of this. thats a lot of vocal dissidents, definitely the majority?
[/quote]


I'd like to see the proof behind these figures! From the Apostolic Visitor's website, I don't think this is the case, but I would be interested to see what the Church quotes as figures.

[littlesister]

What I take from all this is that the Visitation is less about what religious are DOING, and more about how they are LIVING. Recognition as a community calls for community prayer, community life, and public commitment accepted by the Church. Very often, defined ministry and founding charism also play into it. There are cases where these elements are being defined pretty broadly. And there are broad-definition communities whose members have gone through years of suffering over interpretations that they do not agree with but can do nothing about.

It also seems doubtful that the questions about finances mean that the anyone wants to take the sisters' money. It is more likely that the questioners want to make sure that ministries are viable and care for the members is possible, both now and in the future. Unfortunately, some groups -even large ones - are in a lot of trouble that way.

Simply submitting constitutions is like answering a question that hasn't been asked.

[alleros]

Here in Ireland, they leave them to rot rather than let them be used by others.. and they were bult by public subscription.

Terrible waste.

NB not sure if this has been said, but the inquiry does not include contemplative orders.

Many of the orders being assessed are now small and not renewing also.

PS here and not sure re the US, the bishops have no say; the convents belong to the religious orders not the dioceses

When an order dies, all assets also go the the vatican.

Here, the Mercy Srs have just had to hand over another 138 million euros in cash and property to the victims of their abuse; they are so rich that they will not miss it.


[quote name='Raphael' date='27 November 2009 - 10:00 AM' timestamp='1259334006' post='2010226']
So here's a topic to ponder...what's going to happen when all these convents are left empty? I'm hoping the bishops hand them over to young vibrant dioceses that are growing.
[/quote]

Edited December 5, 2009 by alleros

[Saint Therese]

I think the fact they have such a problem with the vistations and with the study is a sure sign that the study/visitation is needed.

[JimR-OCDS]

I just read an article in a Catholic publication, which I can't find on line, that the questions the nuns are having problems
answering, have to do with financial issues, which those nuns who are not the leaders of the order, do not have information
on. They are answering the questions on Church teachings on abortion and such.


Jim

Edited December 5, 2009 by JimR-OCDS

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='alleros' date='05 December 2009 - 08:29 AM' timestamp='1260019775' post='2014940']
PS here and not sure re the US, the bishops have no say; the convents belong to the religious orders not the dioceses
[/quote]
No, bishops do have some authority over their local religious orders. That's a universal norm of the Code of Canon Law. See my earlier post in this thread on that topic.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Raphael' date='05 December 2009 - 11:46 AM' timestamp='1260028010' post='2014964']
No, bishops do have some authority over their local religious orders. That's a universal norm of the Code of Canon Law. See my earlier post in this thread on that topic.
[/quote]


They do unless the order has Papal approval. Then their provincial reports directly to the Pope, not to the Bishop.

Jim

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
pray, pray, pray for these women religious in this season of Advent to become on fire with waiting for Our Lord.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='05 December 2009 - 07:04 PM' timestamp='1260039862' post='2015008']
+J.M.J.+
pray, pray, pray for these women religious in this season of Advent to become on fire with waiting for Our Lord.
[/quote]
Amen

[jkaands]

There is an editorial in the NCR on the visitation, mainly about the manner in which it was instituted. I wish that this current visitation could be compared with the previous one regarding the seminaries in the US. This visitation was unannounced; it took the orders by surprise. One reason is that many/ (most?) of the orders send women to Rome or have women religious living there who are, or try to be in communication with the Vatican, should any questions come up. None apparently had come up until the visitation. This is led by ONE nun, a member of an order with few in the US, who is not known to anyone here. There was a large and long questionnaire, regarding age, money, financial holdings and management, and details on religious practice and the number in formation. The plan was to collate all of this--the nuns were supposed to PAY for the investigators--room, board, transportation--and send off a [i]secret [/i]report to Rome regarding their findings and conclusions. No discussions with the congregations over their impressions.

....I think that if one were to try this on the [i]men's[/i] congregations, one would run into trouble. I think that the [i]manner[/i] in which the Vatican proceeded had a lot to do with the response, or lack of it. If representatives in our federal government were to try this on US citizens, [i]they[/i] would run into trouble.

...Another point. I find that the focus on the total number [i]in formation[/i] can be misleading. In some habited orders, here may be a lot of postulants, novices and first professed, but, aside from a very few congregations, there are relatively few taking final vows. It is the final professions that count. And many of the habited groups, if one is to check those listed in the Institute for Religious Life, appear to be growing very slowly if at all.