ICTHUS Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Hey Mustbenothing, I'm ICTHUS from CGR It should be noted that some Roman Catholics (such as myself) believe in a literal 7 day Creation. However, the belief is not very common among Catholics. But it is nevertheless within the teachings of the Catholic Church. I hold it because, a.) I converted from a Protestant church where the belief was prevalent. b.) I trust that God can indeed do what He said He did, namely, create the world, and all the creatures on it, in 7 literal days. c.) Not to mention the Biblical types of Christ as the Last Adam, and (it follows) His Mother, Mary, as the Last Eve, dont make sense if Adam and Eve were only metaphorical figures. Grace and blessings, Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Adam and Eve are not metaphorical. I never said that. THey were real human beings who God gave a soul to, and fell of their own free will. We all suffer as a result. But the context of the story is a teaching story, with certain specific truths. God created everything and it was good. God created man specifically. God created the world for us to us, the animals for us to care for. THe sin of Adam brought pain and death into our lives, but with a promise of future redemption. What does not matter is the six day time period and the ludicrous notion that the Bible is a scientific treatise. Science and truth must agreed because they have the same origin - God. THe historical period of the Bible starts with Abraham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 (edited) And what would be the point of fossils etc, merely decoration? Edited August 6, 2003 by cmotherofpirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 So because Moses knew what a day was the wirter of Genesis (a book passed down by Oral tradition whose writer is anonymous) was speaking, in the story of Creation, of 7 literal days? That doesn't follow. God only created the sun on the 4th day! How can there be a 24 hour day without the sun?! The story of creation, in proper context shows us that God indeed created the earth and all that was in it, especially humans, starting with TWO (now a scientific fact as mitochondrial and y chromosome tracing has determined), Adam and Eve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 so then y'all agree with me that some parts of the Bible aren't meant to be taken literally? what about the Big Bang theory, i've heard of it, but who knows anything about it? is that a viable theory too? I don't believe that evolution holds too much weight. For an indepth argument against it read "Darwin's Black Box". The main problem lies within the concept of irreducible complexity. The big bang on the other hand, I think could be possible, as long as we all believe that God was the cause of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 I can't agree with the Big Bang theory. In order for it to have worked, there would have had to be organization from dissorganization - which we can see now that the opposite is true! Unless God had his hand in things even AFTER the bang was caused. Otherwise, how could such complex organizmes such as ourselves be formed - even without soul and spirit (both had to have been created by God - not a bang). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Like I said God could have started it. We did not come of the big bang... just the earth and space and all that stuff. Of course, God was involved after the big bang, he's involved now isn't he??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustbenothing Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 (cmotherofpirl) What does not matter is the six day time period and the ludicrous notion that the Bible is a scientific treatise. Science and truth must agreed because they have the same origin - God. (Me) But it is a history book (cmotherofpirl) THe historical period of the Bible starts with Abraham. (Me) As I said before: Can you show us any place where the text indicates this shift from metaphor to history? (cmotherofpirl) And what would be the point of fossils etc, merely decoration? (Me) When God creates things, He has a pattern of creating them "mature." So, the fish with which Jesus fed the thousands appeared aged. The wine Jesus made tasted old. Adam and Eve were adults, not infants. (God Conquers) So because Moses knew what a day was the wirter of Genesis (a book passed down by Oral tradition whose writer is anonymous) was speaking, (Me) The Pentateuch is infallibly identified as having been generally written by Moses throughout the NT. To say that Moses didn't write its first chapter, then, is a claim that you have to substantiate. It is clear, for instance, that Moses probably didn't write the description of his death or the stories after his death. However, I don't see any reason to think that Moses didn't write Genesis 1-2. (God Conquers) in the story of Creation, of 7 literal days? That doesn't follow. God only created the sun on the 4th day! How can there be a 24 hour day without the sun?! (Me) It indicates that there was morning and evening beforehand. (God Conquers) The story of creation, in proper context shows us that God indeed created the earth and all that was in it, especially humans, starting with TWO (now a scientific fact as mitochondrial and y chromosome tracing has determined), Adam and Eve. (Me) Its proper context (as displayed by the rest of the book of Genesis) is historical. Therefore, you must have created an artificial interpretive device if you want to allegorize its first few chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 yes........ of course........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 i dont think the 7day thing is literal because there are two stories and the other story doesn't mention it the tower of babel story is a warning against communism in my opinion i think adam and eve were in the garden of Eden around the time of the dinosaurs and God hadta kill em all off when he kicked adam and eve out of the garden-- we caused their extinction and for all those fossils of human-like creatures, i think they were animals- not human, there is no evidence that they are our ancestors, maybe they were wiped out with the flood and Noah was a homosapien while a bunch of other human like creatures were basically monkeys that looked more like humans i dont believe in evolution, so whoever did that math comment tell me if theres a way im wrong there <<justafewthoughts>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 and for all those fossils of human-like creatures, i think they were animals- not human, there is no evidence that they are our ancestors Actually, many of those fossils have turned out not to be human anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 One of Satans greatest allies is evolution and those foolish enough to both believe and condone it. Once you understand the very complex subject (I kid you not) of evolution any reasonable person would understand what mathmaticians already have- it's impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 brother adam, i understand evolution b bad n all, dont condone it but the math thing? like i said b4 QUOTE Also keep in mind that evolution has been declared a mathamatic impossibility. The probability is 1 in 1^280, which to a scientist is impossible. not to say that evolution definitely did happen, but in my opinion this is a weak argument how many planets are there in the universe? could there be 1^280? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanHooty Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Argh. Where's Blade when you need him (a bio-chemist who I know from Usenet, albiet an atheist)? From what I've read, evolution has not yet declared "mathematically impossible." We can even see forms of mutation and the beginnings of speciation in certain animal populations. The fossil record, while certainly not the most complete thing in the world, shows the extintion and emergence of different species of animals throughout the eons. The only real part about evolution that is up for grabs in the scientific community is the "how it happens." Specifically, does the differentation between species occur at a fixed and steady pace or at a slow pace puncuated by short bursts of speciation. Now, as for your mathematically impossible thing, I think you might be reffering to the generation of life out of random amino acids, proteins, and stuff in some primordial ooze. Now, from what I have read, that does seem to be mathematically impossible, barring some odd property in amino acids that has escaped us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 God would have to be a schizophenic to have created the world by a method meant to eliminate any need for a higher power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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