Arrogance In Catholic Forums

[Sternhauser]

Kafka, I read where you're coming from. I recognize that you're not condemning the citation of scripture and magisterial documents in and of itself.

~Sternhauser

Edited January 5, 2010 by Sternhauser

[Moosey]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='04 January 2010 - 10:05 PM' timestamp='1262657108' post='2029855']
How do you . . . you know . . . go?

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='kafka' date='05 January 2010 - 10:36 AM' timestamp='1262648201' post='2029690']
yes I am sure about this. The author of the Cloud of Unknowing who was a very holy man and precursor of Saint John of the Cross expressed that for a time it was in vogue to quote extensively but then near the end of the medieval period it was thought crude and arrogant. Of course quoting Scripture and Magestirial sources can be good, yet quoting without explaining the meaning and context in one's own words is in my opinion crude.

A teacher who can explain the faith in his own words is greater, like Christ who taught with authority and did not have to quote extensively like the Pharisees did.
[/quote]

kafka - I have the greatest respect for you as a scholar, but The Cloud of Unknowing was written by someone who wouldn't even put his own name to the work - so you are quoting from "anonymous" - hardly a great reference! And I personally did not like many of his views in that book, by the way, and there is just no way that I would ever utter his (unknown) name in the same sentence as that of St John of the Cross, let alone compare them! Mister Unknown had many prejudices and opinions that would have benefitted from some proper sourcing material! St John of the Cross had no need of sourcing material (although he did quote the Gospels) - he was a spiritual giant! Sorry, but that's how I see it.....

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='04 January 2010 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1262648163' post='2029689']
[i]Faith of the Early Fathers[/i]?
[/quote]
Maybe.

Also Confessions by Augustine.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='04 January 2010 - 05:24 PM' timestamp='1262654668' post='2029796']
Oh, and like this comment is free from any and all "snarkiness."
[/quote]

ugh, how "snarky" of you!

[Moosey]

*SNARK!*

Augh, excuse me. I just can't stop sneezing.

[mcts]

[quote name='Luthien' date='04 January 2010 - 08:55 PM' timestamp='1262656502' post='2029844']
Its dUSts forum, take it up with him. It's not against the rules to quote the Catechism. If you don't like it, make your own forum.
[/quote]

if i had any, i'd +1 this.

[HisChildForever]

Are you ill?

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='05 January 2010 - 12:59 PM' timestamp='1262656748' post='2029848']
I think its arrogant when someone says "I know what the Magisterium teaches but this is what I think is true"
[/quote]
This depends. Personally I am a very obedient Catholic. At Mass and any function where I am representing the Catholic faith I try to live up to what would be expected of me. The main reason for doing this is because most people have not been as blessed as I in having such a fantastic spiritual life and close liaison with Jesus. It is one which has migrated from faith to reality. That is, I'm sure of the existence of God beyond reason of a doubt. By trying to live as Jesus would have me and that is to be obedient to those he places over me is an inspiration to those who may be struggling with faith. However on Forums for interest and learning, I like to propose my own idea's with the hope that other people may add to them or cause me to change my view. The problem is that as soon as you do this, someone will jump in with "That's not what the Catholic religion believes" or words to this effect. Now the invitation to this forum for example states that all faith and non faith are welcome to discuss their beliefs. If we want to know what the Catholic teachings are then there is plenty of material to read on the subject. Also I have never been really comfortable with the point scoring system. I often wonder how Jesus would fair if he were to post anonymously!
Actually I rather admire a certain atheist who posts here and has actually managed to maintain a considerable number of pluses. He must be an awesome writer to do that where a very slight deviation from what people have been taught is likely to incur a minus. There is another awesome person who has managed over a century of minuses and still posts here. To me that is also truly awesome. It's the kind of humbleness that Jesus would ask of us.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='04 January 2010 - 10:59 PM' timestamp='1262660369' post='2029895']
This depends. Personally I am a very obedient Catholic. At Mass and any function where I am representing the Catholic faith I try to live up to what would be expected of me. The main reason for doing this is because most people have not been as blessed as I in having such a fantastic spiritual life and close liaison with Jesus. It is one which has migrated from faith to reality. That is, I'm sure of the existence of God beyond reason of a doubt. By trying to live as Jesus would have me and that is to be obedient to those he places over me is an inspiration to those who may be struggling with faith. However on Forums for interest and learning, I like to propose my own idea's with the hope that other people may add to them or cause me to change my view. The problem is that as soon as you do this, someone will jump in with "That's not what the Catholic religion believes" or words to this effect. Now the invitation to this forum for example states that all faith and non faith are welcome to discuss their beliefs. If we want to know what the Catholic teachings are then there is plenty of material to read on the subject. Also I have never been really comfortable with the point scoring system. I often wonder how Jesus would fair if he were to post anonymously!
Actually I rather admire a certain atheist who posts here and has actually managed to maintain a considerable number of pluses. He must be an awesome writer to do that where a very slight deviation from what people have been taught is likely to incur a minus. There is another awesome person who has managed over a century of minuses and still posts here. To me that is also truly awesome. It's the kind of humbleness that Jesus would ask of us.
[/quote]

Exactly.

+1

[Winchester]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='04 January 2010 - 09:05 PM' timestamp='1262657108' post='2029855']
How do you . . . you know . . . go?

~Sternhauser
[/quote]
The word does no mean what you think it means.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Winchester' date='04 January 2010 - 10:04 PM' timestamp='1262660671' post='2029903']
The word does no mean what you think it means.
[/quote]

"Inconceivable?"

~Sternhauser

Edited January 5, 2010 by Sternhauser

[Jaime]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='04 January 2010 - 09:59 PM' timestamp='1262660369' post='2029895']
This depends. Personally I am a very obedient Catholic. At Mass and any function where I am representing the Catholic faith I try to live up to what would be expected of me. The main reason for doing this is because most people have not been as blessed as I in having such a fantastic spiritual life and close liaison with Jesus. It is one which has migrated from faith to reality. That is, I'm sure of the existence of God beyond reason of a doubt. By trying to live as Jesus would have me and that is to be obedient to those he places over me is an inspiration to those who may be struggling with faith. However on Forums for interest and learning, I like to propose my own idea's with the hope that other people may add to them or cause me to change my view. The problem is that as soon as you do this, someone will jump in with "That's not what the Catholic religion believes" or words to this effect. Now the invitation to this forum for example states that all faith and non faith are welcome to discuss their beliefs. If we want to know what the Catholic teachings are then there is plenty of material to read on the subject. Also I have never been really comfortable with the point scoring system. I often wonder how Jesus would fair if he were to post anonymously!
Actually I rather admire a certain atheist who posts here and has actually managed to maintain a considerable number of pluses. He must be an awesome writer to do that where a very slight deviation from what people have been taught is likely to incur a minus. There is another awesome person who has managed over a century of minuses and still posts here. To me that is also truly awesome. It's the kind of humbleness that Jesus would ask of us.
[/quote]

No it doesn't depend.

For example let's take the discussion of what can invalidate a mass. I don't have a problem with someone saying "I don't understand how adding honey to the bread can cause the mass to be invalidated." Or "do the words really have to be exact?" These are fine questions. What doesn't work is when someone says "I know my Jesus and as long as mass is there, Jesus is there too." That's arrogant. that person is saying saying that they know better than some very learned and very holy people.

I'm glad when people feel close to Jesus. But I know protestants who feel extremely close to Jesus (and I don't deny that they are) and are convinced that by my going to mass, I've condemned myself to hell. The closer you are to Christ, the more humble you are to the teachings of the Church.

[Happy_Catholic]

People's arrogance doesn't just stop in forums. I've met some pretty arrogant Catholics in my life.

There's two things I really don't like that I see on forums quite a lot, firstly, when you have a different opinion with evidence to back it up and the person you're in a discussion with peeps in their pants, even if you want the same thing.

Secondly, this passive aggressive sort of behaviour. Either they pretend they don't acknowledge the point or "don't understand" it when they do, or they continue to express their opinion without acknowledging that other people and other evidence can carry equal merit. I've seen it a few times when people post "I'm not going to read your link, its all biased anyway!!"

The other thing I find irritating, but accept it as part of the Internet's community structure, are these campaigns you see on boards that either consciously or sub-consciously seek to push those of alternative opinions out. I've seen it on a lot of aboriton related forums. How can anyone have a decent debate/conversation if the adminstration of a board or the people of the board ban or push out those who have excessively opposite opinions?

I have learnt more about my faith from extreme Christian fundamentalists and more about abortion from the pro-abortion side, then I ever had from my own side of the fence. That's how we learnt, from being exposed to alternative opinions! Banning those who hint at so much as a squeak of disagreement doesn't help anyone, and it certainly doesn't make a forum interesting.

Plus, all the banning and flamming and arrogance, its not very Christ like, is it?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

"What's wrong with the world? I am." -G.K. Chesterton, paraphrase