Arrogance In Catholic Forums

[picchick]

I have not read the other thread that people are talking about. However, I do have some things to say on your post, Kafka.

It is very important to quote Church documents. It is how we learn our faith. The only way I have developed my opinion and knowledge is by studying the little I did study. (I say little because compared to others and the vast documents of the Church, it is truly little). It is also authority. I am not authority and neither is my opinion. My opinion can be very wrong according to the Church and her teachings and I must be in submission to her.

With that being said, I am not one who follows blindly, which I believe is how I semi agree with your stance. I learn from the Church and from what I learn, I develop my opinion and my understanding. I think that this is what people here need to do. Again, I have not read whatever thread people are talking about. I have seen full posts that people make that are just quotations of documents. Personally, I just skip over them. Probably not to my benefit but whatever. The ones I don't skip over is when there is a quote from a document and the person writes something afterwards. That to me, is more useful than a post of quotes. It is more helpful for me because I then can tell what the understanding is of the person quoting. Furthermore, it provides perspective into their interpretation.

Would I say posts full of quotes is arrogant because it was considered that in the middle ages? No, not really. I don't think we can look at today's time with the lens of the middle ages. I think we have to judge each age with their own lens. I do find it useless though and unproductive unless you can explain to me what you are talking about (you being a general you). We all do not have the theological and philosophical minds. Mine is mos def not.

God Bless,
Meg

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='05 January 2010 - 02:32 PM' timestamp='1262662324' post='2029948']
No it doesn't depend.


[/quote]

Then we differ. Someone has made my point by giving you a point. If what you say is true then atheists, agnostics and all non Catholic religions are arrogant. Do you honestly believe that your God gave you a brain, but doesn't expect you to use it? But to make a slight correction if a [u]Catholic[/u] were to state that something they decided which contravened Church teaching was a truth then that would be arrogant. But to propose something to invoke thought is called searching our faith. I don't know about you, but my faith wasn't served on a platter. I had to search, fight against distractions and false prophets and other people who claimed to be Catholics but did not act like Christians. Eventually by God's grace and guidance I was brought to St Mary's Catholic Church where I [u]obey and practice Catholicism[/u]. But I do not rest on my laurels, I still search in case there is something I missed. It has been said by an Irish priest that we do not stop learning until about half an hour after we die. (It's a message with a slight joke.)

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='05 January 2010 - 11:18 AM' timestamp='1262650707' post='2029722']
If I was God, I'd probably never quote anyone else either (even though Jesus did indeed quote, or at least allude, quite a bit).
[/quote]

I would have thought that Jesus being God would be quoting himself since he would have been behind what was given to previous prophets that he is quoting.

Edited January 5, 2010 by Mark of the Cross

[KeenanParkerII]

[quote]I have not read the other thread that people are talking about. However, I do have some things to say on your post, Kafka.

It is very important to quote Church documents. It is how we learn our faith. The only way I have developed my opinion and knowledge is by studying the little I did study. (I say little because compared to others and the vast documents of the Church, it is truly little). It is also authority. I am not authority and neither is my opinion. My opinion can be very wrong according to the Church and her teachings and I must be in submission to her.

With that being said, I am not one who follows blindly, which I believe is how I semi agree with your stance. I learn from the Church and from what I learn, I develop my opinion and my understanding. I think that this is what people here need to do. Again, I have not read whatever thread people are talking about. I have seen full posts that people make that are just quotations of documents. Personally, I just skip over them. Probably not to my benefit but whatever. [b]The ones I don't skip over is when there is a quote from a document and the person writes something afterwards. That to me, is more useful than a post of quotes. It is more helpful for me because I then can tell what the understanding is of the person quoting. Furthermore, it provides perspective into their interpretation. [/b]

Would I say posts full of quotes is arrogant because it was considered that in the middle ages? No, not really. I don't think we can look at today's time with the lens of the middle ages. I think we have to judge each age with their own lens. I do find it useless though and unproductive unless you can explain to me what you are talking about (you being a general you). We all do not have the theological and philosophical minds. Mine is mos def not.

God Bless,
Meg [/quote]

This this this. ^

Church documents are integral to our education as Catholics and are a spectacular resource. However, spreading the Gospel and cultivating understanding and faith is much more than pulling documents from an index which relates to the subject at hand. I think the main purpose of the original post was to encourage all Catholics to make sure we are free of ignorance wherever possible, especially pertaining to our faith.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='picchick' date='05 January 2010 - 04:43 AM' timestamp='1262666584' post='2030013']
I have not read the other thread that people are talking about. However, I do have some things to say on your post, Kafka.

It is very important to quote Church documents. It is how we learn our faith. The only way I have developed my opinion and knowledge is by studying the little I did study. (I say little because compared to others and the vast documents of the Church, it is truly little). It is also authority. I am not authority and neither is my opinion. My opinion can be very wrong according to the Church and her teachings and I must be in submission to her.

With that being said, I am not one who follows blindly, which I believe is how I semi agree with your stance. I learn from the Church and from what I learn, I develop my opinion and my understanding. I think that this is what people here need to do. Again, I have not read whatever thread people are talking about. I have seen full posts that people make that are just quotations of documents. Personally, I just skip over them. Probably not to my benefit but whatever. The ones I don't skip over is when there is a quote from a document and the person writes something afterwards. That to me, is more useful than a post of quotes. It is more helpful for me because I then can tell what the understanding is of the person quoting. Furthermore, it provides perspective into their interpretation.

Would I say posts full of quotes is arrogant because it was considered that in the middle ages? No, not really. I don't think we can look at today's time with the lens of the middle ages. I think we have to judge each age with their own lens. I do find it useless though and unproductive unless you can explain to me what you are talking about (you being a general you). We all do not have the theological and philosophical minds. Mine is mos def not.

God Bless,
Meg
[/quote]
If I had another +1 to give, you'd have it.

[AccountDeleted]

I like both. I like there to be quoted sources where relevant, but I also like to see personal comments that explain why that particular quote has any relevance to the topic or support the opinion being held. A comment on its own is just an opinion, and quotes on their own are irrelevant, but a good source and a comment about that quote actually makes some kind of statement that can be discussed.

[organwerke]

I completely agree with you, kafka.
I appreciate very much this forum, but in general you described some attitudes that are very frequent in catholic forums and are really disturbing, and let me say, I think some users in general tend very often to be arrogant.

[Luthien]

I never can understand these threads that are created just to bash a certain group of posters, it truly baffles me...

[MIKolbe]

I have to agree, in the end. I can see this as an attempt to admonish the sinner; but in a forum like this, it just doesn't translate like that at all.

I mean, are people arrogant here, well yes. But I think someone else said that the more efficient manner of contact to communicate that would be a private message.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='05 January 2010 - 01:10 AM' timestamp='1262671840' post='2030060']
Then we differ. Someone has made my point by giving you a point. If what you say is true then atheists, agnostics and all non Catholic religions are arrogant. Do you honestly believe that your God gave you a brain, but doesn't expect you to use it? But to make a slight correction if a [u]Catholic[/u] were to state that something they decided which contravened Church teaching was a truth then that would be arrogant. But to propose something to invoke thought is called searching our faith. I don't know about you, but my faith wasn't served on a platter. I had to search, fight against distractions and false prophets and other people who claimed to be Catholics but did not act like Christians. Eventually by God's grace and guidance I was brought to St Mary's Catholic Church where I [u]obey and practice Catholicism[/u]. But I do not rest on my laurels, I still search in case there is something I missed. It has been said by an Irish priest that we do not stop learning until about half an hour after we die. (It's a message with a slight joke.)
[/quote]

I noticed you didn't quote the rest of my post. Here's what you said in another thread

[quote]The Eucharist as well as a physical act is also more importantly an actof the spirit which takes control making the physical element cease tobe. ie the bread and wine cease to be bread and wine and all materialthings become inconsequential. [b]The only thing that is important is theunity in love between the recipient and Jesus. The only thing thatinvalidates the Eucharist is a person who is mocking it and it onlyinvalidates it for that person.[/b][/quote]

See this is completely wrong. This is protestant thinking and you are not obeying the Church if you profess this.

You go on to say "protestants do something different" in a later post. As if to suggest that what the protestants do is the same thing. (Its not. They do not celebrate Eucharist)

And I don't understand where you get assenting your will to the Church is synonymous with "stop learning". That is , and pardon me for saying so, arrogant. I've got a degree in Theology and in the 20 years since I've received the degree, I haven't quit learning about my faith and the teachings of the Church. But what appears to be the difference between you and I is that if there is something I don't completely understand, I research on how the Church formed her opinion on the subject. You seem happy to justify your opinion with "I know what Jesus thinks". (BTW There's a lot of folks who make that statement. Including Luther, Calvin, the gnostics, Arius, etc.) And here's the arrogant thing about this: You are inferring that you love Jesus more than the rest of us (just like those other folks) and as a result, you know more about what he wants to teach us than the rest of us.

God gave me a brain. And according to the tests I've had to take, its working better than 99.6% of the other brains. And yet as smart as people tell me I am, I KNOW there are people who are smarter than me. Many of them have helped to form Church doctrine. I have the humility to know that my spiritual director (who also loves Jesus a bunch) will help me grow deeper in my faith and help me understand the teachings that I struggle with.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='MIkolbe' date='05 January 2010 - 01:13 PM' timestamp='1262715200' post='2030225']
But I think someone else said that the more efficient manner of contact to communicate that would be a private message.
[/quote]

[Lilllabettt]

+1

[Arpy]

Is posting just to say '+1' really necessary? Seems a bit spammish to me.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote]
A. Some Catholics when discussing matters of the faith excessively quote sources and links whether they be magisterial or from theologians or from other supposed source of authority such as EWTN instead of explaining the Faith in there own words, and/or without explaining the meaning of the quote or link in its context.
[/quote]

Well I'm often guilty of this. The reason is, other sources generally express what I want to say better, and when I express my own opinion, I'm sure to be challenged by some one to provide a source to back up what I'm stating. I just provide the source to begin with and be done with it. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Jim

Edited January 5, 2010 by JimR-OCDS

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Arpy' date='05 January 2010 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1262716656' post='2030241']
Is posting just to say '+1' really necessary? Seems a bit spammish to me.
[/quote]
says the boy with a cat bishop avatar