Songwriter Gets Death Threat For Criticizing Working Women Fatwa

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='17 May 2010 - 09:04 PM' timestamp='1274151873' post='2112459']
Instead of getting mad I will pray for the salvation of your souls.
[/quote]

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='17 May 2010 - 11:04 PM' timestamp='1274151873' post='2112459']
Instead of getting mad I will pray for the salvation of your souls.
[/quote]

You won't admit that you do this at times?

Thank you for the prayers. But as you deny your own faults and try to cover them by impugning my motives for pointing out that you fault others as you are faulted and try to wrap yourself in the appearance of taking the moral high ground, consider another part of your religion.

[i][b]Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them[/b]; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven. So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. [b]And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full[/b].[/i]

I think you need to admit that you are not faultless and maybe get some prayers of your own. Your own salvation is not assured and denying your own sins and cloaking evasiveness in righteousness does not, to me, seem like how one going about trying to 'work out your salvation with fear and trembling'

Edited May 18, 2010 by Hassan

[KnightofChrist]

Really Hassan you wine more than my baby nephew... @@

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='17 May 2010 - 09:16 PM' timestamp='1274152593' post='2112474']
Really Hassan you wine more than my baby nephew... @@
[/quote]
whine.

[Hassan]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='17 May 2010 - 11:16 PM' timestamp='1274152593' post='2112474']
Really Hassan you wine more than my baby nephew... @@
[/quote]

Does your baby nephew also dine?

Edited May 18, 2010 by Hassan

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Hassan' date='17 May 2010 - 11:18 PM' timestamp='1274152718' post='2112479']
Does your baby nephew also dine?
[/quote]

She says she's praying for you and you still find it necessary to complain, after complaining repeatedly already...

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='17 May 2010 - 11:16 PM' timestamp='1274152593' post='2112474']
Really Hassan you wine more than my baby nephew... @@
[/quote]

Seriously, just pray for them. I am adding them to my list whether they like it or not.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='fidei defensor' date='17 May 2010 - 11:17 PM' timestamp='1274152673' post='2112477']
whine.
[/quote]

He could be drinking... that could explain a lot.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='17 May 2010 - 11:22 PM' timestamp='1274152921' post='2112487']
Seriously, just pray for them. I am adding them to my list whether they like it or not.
[/quote]

Your right.

[HisChildForever]

In all sincerity, Hassan, you know nothing about me. You know nothing about who I am or what I think of myself. I would never deny my own faults and I never have. I used to think I was the worst human being on the planet.

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='17 May 2010 - 11:25 PM' timestamp='1274153127' post='2112493']
I would never deny my own faults and I never have.
[/quote]



I'm glad you no longer think you are the worse person on the planet. That is certainly not the case. I don't think you should think yourself a bad people or not worthy of respect by other people. If I did believe that I wouldn't have apologized before for belittling and insulting you. But, you have belittled/insulted people here. I don't see how this could be news to you as I have seen other people confront you about this in other posts, MIKolbe being only the latest. I didn't counter your claim that you never insult another's character in a cruel of snide way. I tried to simply point out that you do insult others, even if you don't usually do so by explicitly assigning a degrading predicate to them. You tend to do so by belittling them with snide and condescending language. You responded to this by acting like I made some unconscionable claim that would lead a lesser person to anger, but you would be good enough to rise above all that and instead altruistically focus on the salvation of my immortal soul. Where I am from, people would consider that is disingenuous.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Hassan' date='17 May 2010 - 11:37 PM' timestamp='1274153824' post='2112502']
I'm glad you no longer think you are the worse person on the planet. That is certainly not the case. I don't think you should think yourself a bad people or not worthy of respect by other people. If I did believe that I wouldn't have apologized before for belittling and insulting you. But, you have belittled/insulted people here. I don't see how this could be news to you as I have seen other people confront you about this in other posts, MIKolbe being only the latest. I didn't counter your claim that you never insult another's character in a cruel of snide way. I tried to simply point out that you do insult others, even if you don't usually do so by explicitly assigning a degrading predicate to them. You tend to do so by belittling them with snide and condescending language. You responded to this by acting like I made some unconscionable claim that would lead a lesser person to anger, but you would be good enough to rise above all that and instead altruistically focus on the salvation of my immortal soul. Where I am from, people would consider that is disingenuous.
[/quote]


[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='17 May 2010 - 10:18 AM' timestamp='1274105882' post='2111852']
Seems like most of this thread is focused on HCF herself, instead of the Fatwa against the songwriter. If you can't attacked the message attack the messenger, I suppose.
[/quote]


Turns out I was right after all.

[HisChildForever]

While I am not trying to justify my behavior, when I am rude towards others it happens well into a debate when everyone's temper is flaring. If someone interprets such responses as belittling against the person then they are interpreting my posts wrong. I never seek to belittle the person, even if I am in total disagreement with their argument. More so, I am certainly not the only Phatmass member who snaps yet I seem to be the only Phatmass member called out on it. Repetitively.

You also just gave a perfect example of the wrongful interpretation of my posts. In NO WAY was I trying to make myself seem above ANYONE when I said I would pray for you. It is clear that many of the posts here are an attempt to get a rise out of me, and yes plenty of them succeeded. Your post and Fidei's "zing!" response were meant to add more fuel to the fire. And do correct me if I have interpreted that wrongly. I just assumed that if you were trying to be charitable, the post would have been either worded differently or not said at all. In any event, instead of responding with anger - which was surely expected - I simply replied that I would [i]not[/i] respond in anger.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Hassan' date='16 May 2010 - 04:11 PM' timestamp='1274040682' post='2111502']
How interesting. A Priest defending a mass murder who was part of the program to forcibly convert Serbs to Roman Catholicism. Now, had this man been a cleric defending a Muslim member of the Fascist Croatian government of WWII who wants to guess what conclusions HCF would draw? I'm willing to bet a month's rent that it would not be the same conclusion she would draw from this article. I'm willing to be that here she would point out that there is nothing in the Gospels to support the mythologized racism of the Ustaše or this Priest.

This would be a fair point and perfectly correct. However she uses quite a different standard when it comes to Muslims and Islam. If a Muslim uses religion to justify his wicked actions, then that is enough for her. Even if his actions are not sanctioned by Sharia' or mainstream Sunni thought. If he says 'Allahu Akhbar' before throwing acid on a young woman who has rejected his marriage proposal, then his actions are caused by Islam, never mind that the Hadith gives an adult woman the right to reject a marriage proposal. But if a Catholic does something wicked it has nothing to do with Catholicism because official Church dogma does not sanction such an action.

The hypocrisy is obvious. In one case causality is established by the mere expressed intent of the offender, in another case the offender's intent is absolutely irrelevant if it is not sanctioned by official dogma.
[/quote]
The question to ask is if your case is the exception or the rule. Has the Church approved of what happened? Did the priest condone the actions he was tried and convicted with, or did he speak of those things as "contrary to God's law?"

Islam is dealing with several faith communities condoning and even encouraging violent acts... today, in 2010. Not in the 1940s. And if the majority of Muslims abhor this behavior, their condemnation is a deafening silence.

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='17 May 2010 - 11:49 PM' timestamp='1274154563' post='2112513']
While I am not trying to justify my behavior, when I am rude towards others it happens well into a debate when everyone's temper is flaring. If someone interprets such responses as belittling against the person then they are interpreting my posts wrong. I never seek to belittle the person, even if I am in total disagreement with their argument. More so, I am certainly not the only Phatmass member who snaps yet I seem to be the only Phatmass member called out on it. Repetitively.[/QUOTE]

Well what is being rude to someone if it's not insulting, directly or indirectly? I don't get your reasoning. You are for some reason always being identified called out for these behavior issues, yet you are totally innocent of this charge. You have never insulted the character of another. Despite the apparent consistent impression to the contrary that all those people who unfairly target you seem to have.

I'm not trying to ground you down, I guess I'm just completely baffled thrown at how you reason this internally.

[QUOTE]You also just gave a perfect example of the wrongful interpretation of my posts. In NO WAY was I trying to make myself seem above ANYONE when I said I would pray for you. It is clear that many of the posts here are an attempt to get a rise out of me, and yes plenty of them succeeded.[/QUOTE]

And this is a great example of the dissonance you consistently show when evaluating other people's behavior against your own. You detest that I am misinterpreting your intentions and unfairly assigning motivations to someone I don't truly know, yet here you do the exact thing to me. Literally one sentence after your complaint it is there. You won't have anyone assess your motives and intentions but you have no hesitancy in doing just this to someone else.

[QUOTE]Your post and Fidei's "zing!" response were meant to add more fuel to the fire.[/QUOTE]

I didn't like Fedei's 'zing' comment. I dd not sanction it and approve of it in any way. I thought it was in bad taste and ignored it. Not that I haven't done the same sort of thing myself. But my comment was genuine. I don't see how we will ever escape this cycle of pointless bickering unless we both admit to our shortcomings and work on it. Let me be clear. I have not done this well either. Not at all. But I do find it exasperating that I have several times tried to publicly apologize for treating you wrongly and tried to do better. I've never seen this reciprocated from you and your band and that is frustrating. You deny that you even have any faults in this regard to apologize for or try to correct. I'm not saying you haven't also tried, just that it is personally difficult for me to work on my sins when, from my perspective, there is no movement on the other side to reciprocate. Again, I'm not talking about your actual feelings here, just how is comes off for me personally.

[QUOTE]And do correct me if I have interpreted that wrongly. I just assumed that if you were trying to be charitable, the post would have been either worded differently or not said at all. In any event, instead of responding with anger - which was surely expected - I simply replied that I would [i]not[/i] respond in anger.
[/quote]

Ok. Yes, you interpreted that incorrectly. I seem to have also interpreted your post incorrectly. Sometimes I genuinely succumb to my vices and do respond in snide and other ways wrong ways. Other times, like here apparently, I mean no insult and do not intend to be abrasive are anytime other that genuine. I understand why you would be ready to view my comments in the worst light at times. And for the considerable part I played in disposing you to take that view, I am in the wrong. But in this case I am being genuine and really just trying to figure out what seems to me to be a great dissonance. I am trying to figure this out because I would like us to have a more civil relationship here at phatmass. I'm just tired of it and I'm sure you are as well. I'm not saying we will become best of friends, but I think we could find some common ground and have a much more positive, for our nerves as well as everyone elses, interaction here.