Songwriter Gets Death Threat For Criticizing Working Women Fatwa

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Hassan' date='16 May 2010 - 04:18 PM' timestamp='1274044713' post='2111543']
But there are teaching authorities within those particular sects. the vast majority of Muslims belong to one of the four schools of Sunni Islam. Those four schools are very cohesive in their ideology and have very concrete teachings on just about every aspects of an individuals life.

That works against you. The internal diversity makes it even more vapid to make a general claim that 'x' is what true Islam is. You can say 'x' is the historical and mainstream Sunni position. or 'x' is what Qutb and his followers like Bin Laden view as the matter, but making a generalization is very difficult.
[/quote]

Do all sects of the Mahometan belief system advocate enforcing virtue through violence? Something along the lines of the Mutaween?

~Sternhauser

Edited May 16, 2010 by Sternhauser

[Hassan]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='16 May 2010 - 05:20 PM' timestamp='1274044851' post='2111544']
Do all sects of the Mahometan belief system advocate enforcing virtue through violence?

~Sternhauser
[/quote]



Yes, or at least theoretically permit the validity of doing so. I say that assuming you are using the term violence to include state laws that enforce virtue like laws forbidding the consumption of alcohol by Muslims in the state.

I'm not going to deny that there might be some obscure sect out there somewhere that does not do so. However in regards to what is clearly shown in the Qur'an, the Hadith, the schools of thought and how these texts and traditions have been interpreted consistently through the centuries by the overwhelming majority of Muslim thinkers, the answer is yes.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Hassan

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Hassan' date='16 May 2010 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1274044990' post='2111545']
Yes, or at least theoretically permit the validity of doing so. I say that assuming you are using the term violence to include state laws that enforce virtue like laws forbidding the consumption of alcohol by Muslims in the state.
[/quote]

I would enumerate that in my definition of the term, yes. Would you say that this tendency, [i]qua[/i] behaviors officially prohibited by a religion-enforcing State force, is something that is uniquely Mahometan, and required by the Mahometan belief system?

~Sternhauser

Edited May 16, 2010 by Sternhauser

[Hassan]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='16 May 2010 - 05:25 PM' timestamp='1274045121' post='2111546']
Would you say that this tendency, [i]qua[/i] behaviors officially prohibited by a religion-enforcing State force, is something that is uniquely Mahometan?

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

No.

[Hassan]

Of course is the context of Muslim philosophy we should not be using the term 'state'. But I think the term is fine for convenience.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Hassan' date='16 May 2010 - 04:26 PM' timestamp='1274045190' post='2111547']
No.
[/quote]

What are some other examples of belief systems in which such activities take place with intrinsic religious approbation? Meaning, it is not merely a cultural phenomenon, such as the Middle Ages where witches were burned at the Stake (something the Church condemns,) but rather, where it is a required and unchanging aspect of the religion to enforce virtue (not merely uphold the physical liberty and property of men) for the sake of bringing souls to God?

~Sternhauser

[Hassan]

I have to start writing an essay so my responses may become more delayed for a bit. Sorry.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Hassan' date='16 May 2010 - 04:29 PM' timestamp='1274045387' post='2111550']
I have to start writing an essay so my responses may become more delayed for a bit. Sorry.
[/quote]

Understood.

~Sternhauser

[Hassan]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='16 May 2010 - 05:29 PM' timestamp='1274045378' post='2111549']
What are some other examples of belief systems in which such activities take place with intrinsic religious approbation? Meaning, it is not merely a cultural phenomenon, such as the Middle Ages where witches were burned at the Stake (something the Church condemns,) but rather, where it is a required and unchanging aspect of the religion to enforce virtue (not merely uphold the physical liberty and property of men) for the sake of bringing souls to God?

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

The Law of Moses.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='16 May 2010 - 05:31 PM' timestamp='1274045462' post='2111551']
Understood.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]


Sorry. I should be active again by tonight. If not, hopefully one of us can bump this or continue this on another thread. I always enjoy going back and forth on an issue with you and don't want this to go to waste.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Hassan' date='16 May 2010 - 04:31 PM' timestamp='1274045464' post='2111552']
The Law of Moses.
[/quote]

Is the Law of Moses still upheld by the State in its entirety?

~Sternhauser

[Hassan]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='16 May 2010 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1274045628' post='2111555']
Is the Law of Moses still upheld by the State in its entirety?

~Sternhauser
[/quote]


What do you mean?

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Hassan' date='16 May 2010 - 04:34 PM' timestamp='1274045671' post='2111556']
What do you mean?
[/quote]

Is the organization responsible for the enforcement of the Mosaic law in Israel stoning women for adultery, or killing them for eating the meat of a lamb boiled in its mother's milk, for example?

~Sternhauser

Edited May 16, 2010 by Sternhauser

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='16 May 2010 - 12:31 PM' timestamp='1274031100' post='2111463']
So I am not allowed to have other interests?

I better stop watching action movies and reading Anne Rice. I should also just shut off the news and shun the papers whenever there is a story unrelated to the Church. Darn, does this mean I have to ignore the weather?
[/quote]
Cooking and cleaning is all right too.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='16 May 2010 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1274045801' post='2111557']
Is the organization responsible for the enforcement of the Mosaic law in Israel stoning women for adultery, or killing them for eating the meat of a lamb boiled in its mother's milk, for example?

~Sternhauser
[/quote]


No. I fail to see how this helps your argument though.