Striving For Charity

[Laudate_Dominum]

Do you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='05 August 2010 - 03:07 PM' timestamp='1281031671' post='2152742']
Do you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?
[/quote]

That depends entirely on what you think that phrase means.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' date='05 August 2010 - 02:13 PM' timestamp='1281032035' post='2152748']
That depends entirely on what you think that phrase means.
[/quote]
iawtc

[Hilde]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='05 August 2010 - 09:07 PM' timestamp='1281031671' post='2152742']
Do you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?
[/quote]
Savior of many.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Hassan' date='05 August 2010 - 03:36 AM' timestamp='1280993781' post='2152542']
Here is how I see it, regarding where much of the tension has come from and why some phatmassers view this thread in a negative light. I didn't see everything that happened that night when a lot of phatmassers got suspended. I had to deal with a pair of enraged, drunken frat idiots who decided to start screaming "I will end you ****ing life" and other carious threats after I tried to get them to shut the hell up before they woke up my roommates. It seems, however, that a lot of the tensions between particular phatmassers were never resolved. That night stoked a lot of fires that had been mere embers before. Rather than allow the fire to burn out naturally, the mods clamped down. A lot of phatmassers were furious that they were suspended when you, who was seen as somebody the mods liked, were not. A lot of phatmassers were also furious about the letter. I didn't receive the letter, but I did read a copy that someone forwarded to me. The letter said that any complaints could result in a permaban or longer suspension. I think the letter was hurtful to many of them because 1-It ended with what seemed to be a somewhat snide remark about the 'fruits' of tinychat 2-The rather flippant way that the letter threatened permaban towards to phatmassers (it being a letter seemingly only adressed to one side of the argument, as it mentioned tinychat and hinted at a tinychat group) combined with the fact that the phatmassers one one side received week long suspensions and you received nothing, may give those phatmassers the impression that they are just not as valued as you, and other people who seem to them to be favored by the mods, around here. There was a sense of asymmetrical information. Most active members of the board seemed to know what happened to the tinychatters, but what happened to you, if there was any punishment at all, was a mystery.

So take all of those elements together. The asymmetrical information, the seeming favoritism, the sense that tinychatters really just aren't very valued here (because of the flippant way that threats of permabanning seemed to be thrown around), and the ban on discussing what happened and getting 'closure' on the issues, and then add this letter. A letter that starts off with you posting on it while the rest of us are still suspended (which came off as rubbing our faces in the fact that you seemed to get off lighter than us and generally insincere). That is bumped by some phatmassers with comments that the bumping was well timed (because it was the day we were coming back) which contributed to a sense that the letter was aimed at us. Now the letter is clearly a response to the events that happened that night, however we are not allowed to discuss the events that prompted the letter.

It seems like the letter is designed to force tinychatters to give their word that they will be well behaved. But not just that. It seems almost to be asking them to give their names to the fact that everything is just swell and that the grievances and issues that they have are not significant or don't exist. I think Apo broached this when he said that the thread was asking for kindness rather than charity. I'd say rather that the thread is demanding pleasantness. It is trying to make them announce peace, peace, when there is no peace. With this thread, not only are they not allowed to acknowledge the grievances that they have, they are being asked to sign away that they even exist.

This feeling of an inquisition is only exacerbated when you do things like this. Seeming to hound phatmassers who have not signed and asking why they haven't signed. I'm not trying to say that that is what you are trying to do. I just think that to some tinychatters that is the vibe they get. You keep bringing this thread back up, and wondering aloud why some active phatmassers haven't signed and it just makes it feel more like trap.

I'm not saying this view is valid or that I share it. I'm just trying to help you and others understand why I think some tinychatters are uncomfortable with this thread. And while I don't agree with it, I do understand it. Yes, when I saw this thread and you posting in it while I was still suspended, it felt like a slap in the face. I had always been grateful to phatmass because I really, truly had always felt that even though I am a non-Catholic, I still got a fair shake here. Yeah, I had gotten warning that I felt were unwarranted, but they balanced out the times I got away with pushing the envelope. In fact when I first got on tinychat, before I saw this, I was defending the decision of the mods. I assumed that everyone who had crossed the line had gotten a vacation, and said it was probably best that things had a chance to cool down. When I saw you posting again after a few days, and talking about how great you thought the thread was, I really felt that for the first time I had been unfairly treated here. A lot of people were angry about that. I also understand why the letter caused so much anger. I fell that a lot of the anger it provoked was misdirected, but I could see how someone could really feel like they were not 'really' part of the 'phamily' with the tone of the letter.

I also think that a lot of people have a harder time with this than I do. I never expect to be fully integrated. I'm not an orthodox Catholic. Combine that with the fact that I genuinely like all the mods and try to see where they are coming from, and just don't have as much invested in this place as some do, and I obviously would be able to get past some of these things faster than others. I think other phatmassers are much more concerned with being fully accepted and respected here and for them this was a much deeper wound and is still unable to heal because the grievances were never healed. for me, that night was much more personal, I had a problem with you. Not phatmass, just you. We have both apologized and said we would try to be better to each other in the future, so for me this issue is really over. But for other phatmassers, the 'flamewar' with you really was just symptomatic of much deeper issues of feeling mod favoritism, not being valued, et cetera. And this thread is just kind of a continued reminder and exacerbator of those issues.

Now, it is quite late I am quite tired, and I typed all this up pretty quickly and without re-reading it (which is actually normal) so if that was a giant, disorganized mess, I'm sorry. If I misrepresented any of my fellow tinychatters, I'm sorry. I just would like this to shed some light on things and help clear all this mess.
[/quote]
i just think a lot of people don't like others disagreeing with them, and so they band together and harrass those who would dare to oppose them...

not everyone sees what you see... some very mature phatmassers are sick and tired of the little group tag teams that go about the threads attacking someone for "attacking their friends." It's ridiculous, and there's no evangelization in that... phatmass was created to evangelize others and let them see the beauty of our faith...not to start little cliques and decide who should be singled out and harrassed for their differing points of view...

as for this thread, Icey meant it without any malice to anybody... I think she was trying to remind us how prideful we can become in this phorum, and how we bicker until one of us has to have the last word... Pride is of the devil, and I believe she was trying to remind us of that...

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='05 August 2010 - 09:14 PM' timestamp='1281060842' post='2152990']
i just think a lot of people don't like others disagreeing with them, and so they band together and harrass those who would dare to oppose them...

not everyone sees what you see... some very mature phatmassers are sick and tired of the little group tag teams that go about the threads attacking someone for "attacking their friends." It's ridiculous, and there's no evangelization in that... phatmass was created to evangelize others and let them see the beauty of our faith...not to start little cliques and decide who should be singled out and harrassed for their differing points of view...

as for this thread, Icey meant it without any malice to anybody... I think she was trying to remind us how prideful we can become in this phorum, and how we bicker until one of us has to have the last word... Pride is of the devil, and I believe she was trying to remind us of that...
[/quote]


Excellent reply, DS. Very wise.

As for evangelization, I had been looking seriously into the Catholic faith, but have decided to put serious discernment on hold for at least six months, because it was tearing me apart emotionally. Phatmass was certainly not the only reason, but it played a large part. After all, the only Catholics I know are those on Phatmass, and right now, I'm not physically able to attend services of any religion. However, God is ultimately responsible for my religious decisions, not Phatmass.

Still, since Phatmass often has more visitors than members online, I often wonder who the "visitors" are, and what they think. When it's hot and humid, I sometimes find it harder to do my part in being charitable, but that is no excuse. Lately, I have been walking away from the computer more often, which has helped. I also need to follow the example of Lil Red, and edit my posts (which are often too long anyway), and rethink them sometimes before I post.

I think Phatmass has a potentially far-reaching role in being a strong witness for the Catholic faith that can be forgotten at times, as well as the ability of Catholicism to have a positive impact on teaching us to be both mature and humble. I think that witness is ALL of our responsibilities, even those of us who are not Catholic (yet?)

Thanks again, DS.

Edited August 6, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='05 August 2010 - 10:14 PM' timestamp='1281060842' post='2152990']
i just think a lot of people don't like others disagreeing with them, and so they band together and harrass those who would dare to oppose them...
[/quote]

I completely agree.

[Tridenteen]

JMJ
I double that thought HCF.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Terra Firma' date='05 August 2010 - 06:14 AM' timestamp='1281003272' post='2152553']
I felt the thread was poorly timed. I watched many of the events prior to this thread's inception from the sidelines, and this thread seemed like a one-sided, in-your-face, put-down to some of the participants in those events. That really rubbed me the wrong way, even though I was not one of the participants. [b]This read of the thread was reinforced when it was bumped just as several people returned from their "vacations."[/b] I thought that was in particularly poor taste, even though my sarcastic comment to that effect probably didn't effectively communicate that.
[/quote]

[quote name='Tridenteen' date='04 August 2010 - 11:13 PM' timestamp='1280977986' post='2152449']
JMJ
Exactly. I never voted becaue although IcePrincess was "clear on her intent" I see it as being used by others as a manipulation of others. Kind of like the Animal Farm, come to think of it.
[/quote]

These are the reasons why I also did not vote in this thread. I shall not bow down and submit to the Charity Gestapo. My vow of charity can be found on my profile. BTW I agree Icey had good intentions but it has been manipulated by others.

Pax

Edited August 6, 2010 by KnightofChrist

[Jaime]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='05 August 2010 - 10:49 PM' timestamp='1281062957' post='2153025']
These are the reasons why I also did not vote in this thread. I shall not bow down and submit to the Charity Gestapo. My vow of charity can be found on my profile. BTW I agree Icey had good intentions but it has been manipulated by others.

Pax
[/quote]

I'm sorry but "Charity Gestapo" is so unnecessarily dramatic.

Godwins law

[KnightofChrist]

God Bless.

[Jaime]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='05 August 2010 - 11:17 PM' timestamp='1281064649' post='2153036']
God Bless.
[/quote]

So now you and Trid have both suggested that this thread has been manipulated by "others"

Who are these others?

[KnightofChrist]

God Bless

[HisChildForever]

Interrogation time?

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='05 August 2010 - 10:20 PM' timestamp='1281064841' post='2153040']
God Bless
[/quote]


JMJ
As the lady always follows suit of the knight (yeah, corny, but we'll go with it) I will echo his wise words

"God Bless'[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/saint.gif[/img]