Striving For Charity

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' date='04 August 2010 - 11:36 PM' timestamp='1280990203' post='2152536']
This confrontational attitude, for one. Another, the persecution from people who have power here towards those who uphold the magesterium's words on liturgy and music, the pope's words on liturgy, especially the importance of the Usus Antiquitor (and no, one is not "Most loyal" to the Church by going to the NO). There is alienation of groups going on in this forum that is supposed to be friendly to Catholics of all walk. I'm open to talk, for sure. Let's use logic and history and continuity to talk it out. We need dialogue without the threat of a ban-hammer or whatever. That's the sickness that's around here.
[/quote]
nevermind, i'm being a twit.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Lil Red

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='05 August 2010 - 12:07 PM' timestamp='1281020859' post='2152600']
nevermind, i'm being a twit.
[/quote]
but you are a cute twit

[Jaime]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='05 August 2010 - 11:07 AM' timestamp='1281020859' post='2152600']
nevermind, i'm being a twit.
[/quote]

I wish you left it

[Lil Red]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='05 August 2010 - 08:26 AM' timestamp='1281021973' post='2152609']
but you are a cute twit
[/quote]
we haven't argued about that yet.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='05 August 2010 - 08:26 AM' timestamp='1281021993' post='2152610']
I wish you left it
[/quote]
we'll see how i feel later today. might repost after some discussions.

[Hassan]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='05 August 2010 - 11:26 AM' timestamp='1281021973' post='2152609']
but you are...cute...
[/quote]


Thank you

[Hassan]

[quote name='Hassan' date='05 August 2010 - 03:36 AM' timestamp='1280993781' post='2152542']
Here is how I see it, regarding where much of the tension has come from and why some phatmassers view this thread in a negative light. I didn't see everything that happened that night when a lot of phatmassers got suspended. I had to deal with a pair of enraged, drunken frat idiots who decided to start screaming "I will end you ****ing life" and other carious threats after I tried to get them to shut the hell up before they woke up my roommates. It seems, however, that a lot of the tensions between particular phatmassers were never resolved. That night stoked a lot of fires that had been mere embers before. Rather than allow the fire to burn out naturally, the mods clamped down. A lot of phatmassers were furious that they were suspended when you, who was seen as somebody the mods liked, were not. A lot of phatmassers were also furious about the letter. I didn't receive the letter, but I did read a copy that someone forwarded to me. The letter said that any complaints could result in a permaban or longer suspension. I think the letter was hurtful to many of them because 1-It ended with what seemed to be a somewhat snide remark about the 'fruits' of tinychat 2-The rather flippant way that the letter threatened permaban towards to phatmassers (it being a letter seemingly only adressed to one side of the argument, as it mentioned tinychat and hinted at a tinychat group) combined with the fact that the phatmassers one one side received week long suspensions and you received nothing, may give those phatmassers the impression that they are just not as valued as you, and other people who seem to them to be favored by the mods, around here. There was a sense of asymmetrical information. Most active members of the board seemed to know what happened to the tinychatters, but what happened to you, if there was any punishment at all, was a mystery.

So take all of those elements together. The asymmetrical information, the seeming favoritism, the sense that tinychatters really just aren't very valued here (because of the flippant way that threats of permabanning seemed to be thrown around), and the ban on discussing what happened and getting 'closure' on the issues, and then add this letter. A letter that starts off with you posting on it while the rest of us are still suspended (which came off as rubbing our faces in the fact that you seemed to get off lighter than us and generally insincere). That is bumped by some phatmassers with comments that the bumping was well timed (because it was the day we were coming back) which contributed to a sense that the letter was aimed at us. Now the letter is clearly a response to the events that happened that night, however we are not allowed to discuss the events that prompted the letter.

It seems like the letter is designed to force tinychatters to give their word that they will be well behaved. But not just that. It seems almost to be asking them to give their names to the fact that everything is just swell and that the grievances and issues that they have are not significant or don't exist. I think Apo broached this when he said that the thread was asking for kindness rather than charity. I'd say rather that the thread is demanding pleasantness. It is trying to make them announce peace, peace, when there is no peace. With this thread, not only are they not allowed to acknowledge the grievances that they have, they are being asked to sign away that they even exist.

This feeling of an inquisition is only exacerbated when you do things like this. Seeming to hound phatmassers who have not signed and asking why they haven't signed. I'm not trying to say that that is what you are trying to do. I just think that to some tinychatters that is the vibe they get. You keep bringing this thread back up, and wondering aloud why some active phatmassers haven't signed and it just makes it feel more like trap.

I'm not saying this view is valid or that I share it. I'm just trying to help you and others understand why I think some tinychatters are uncomfortable with this thread. And while I don't agree with it, I do understand it. Yes, when I saw this thread and you posting in it while I was still suspended, it felt like a slap in the face. I had always been grateful to phatmass because I really, truly had always felt that even though I am a non-Catholic, I still got a fair shake here. Yeah, I had gotten warning that I felt were unwarranted, but they balanced out the times I got away with pushing the envelope. In fact when I first got on tinychat, before I saw this, I was defending the decision of the mods. I assumed that everyone who had crossed the line had gotten a vacation, and said it was probably best that things had a chance to cool down. When I saw you posting again after a few days, and talking about how great you thought the thread was, I really felt that for the first time I had been unfairly treated here. A lot of people were angry about that. I also understand why the letter caused so much anger. I fell that a lot of the anger it provoked was misdirected, but I could see how someone could really feel like they were not 'really' part of the 'phamily' with the tone of the letter.

I also think that a lot of people have a harder time with this than I do. I never expect to be fully integrated. I'm not an orthodox Catholic. Combine that with the fact that I genuinely like all the mods and try to see where they are coming from, and just don't have as much invested in this place as some do, and I obviously would be able to get past some of these things faster than others. I think other phatmassers are much more concerned with being fully accepted and respected here and for them this was a much deeper wound and is still unable to heal because the grievances were never healed. for me, that night was much more personal, I had a problem with you. Not phatmass, just you. We have both apologized and said we would try to be better to each other in the future, so for me this issue is really over. But for other phatmassers, the 'flamewar' with you really was just symptomatic of much deeper issues of feeling mod favoritism, not being valued, et cetera. And this thread is just kind of a continued reminder and exacerbator of those issues.

Now, it is quite late I am quite tired, and I typed all this up pretty quickly and without re-reading it (which is actually normal) so if that was a giant, disorganized mess, I'm sorry. If I misrepresented any of my fellow tinychatters, I'm sorry. I just would like this to shed some light on things and help clear all this mess.
[/quote]

huh, I didn't think I actually posted this. Phatmassing right before bed is a dangerous, and sexy, thing to do.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Tridenteen' date='05 August 2010 - 09:48 AM' timestamp='1281016102' post='2152571']
JMJ
SMM<--- you are my hero.[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Jaimie, to answer your question, I see the whole thing as childish. Kind of like when I went to to school for 4 hellish years. Everyone always had to be promise to bew "nice" to each other. So why was it that the kid who had red rash marks on her arms singled out for bullying whilst she was still trying to keep the promise? Why are you hammering people, albeit under the guise of "inquiring", why they haven't? You took it, and flipped out over a small word of latin? I use german and serb in my posts, and no one cares...so is that going against the pledge? And just because I'm curious, what about the pm'ers that use japanese? Well, of course I googled it to figure out what they were saying...but I called it "fun" , yeah

Filisofical
Understanding
New Words

And after all this? Well...SMM> you are still my hero!
[/quote]




You speak Serbian?!

http://www.pozorje.org.rs/2009/predstava7eng.htm

You can watch this and understand it. I can only get bits and pieces.

http://www.pozorje.org.rs/2009/predstava7_video.htm

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Tridenteen' date='04 August 2010 - 08:13 PM' timestamp='1280977986' post='2152449']
JMJ
Exactly. I never voted becaue although IcePrincess was "clear on her intent" I see it as being used by others as a manipulation of others. Kind of like the Animal Farm, come to think of it.
[/quote]
names or it didn't happen.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='04 August 2010 - 08:19 PM' timestamp='1280978370' post='2152456']but because I don't think it will change anything. [/quote]
that's darn obvious so far, because nothing has changed.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Tridenteen' date='05 August 2010 - 06:48 AM' timestamp='1281016102' post='2152571']
JMJ
SMM<--- you are my hero.[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Jaimie, to answer your question, I see the whole thing as childish. Kind of like when I went to to school for 4 hellish years. Everyone always had to be promise to bew "nice" to each other. So why was it that the kid who had red rash marks on her arms singled out for bullying whilst she was still trying to keep the promise? Why are you hammering people, albeit under the guise of "inquiring", why they haven't? You took it, and flipped out over a small word of latin? I use german and serb in my posts, and no one cares...so is that going against the pledge? And just because I'm curious, what about the pm'ers that use japanese? Well, of course I googled it to figure out what they were saying...but I called it "fun" , yeah

Filisofical
Understanding
New Words

And after all this? Well...SMM> you are still my hero!
[/quote]
if someone writes in a foreign language, i usually skip it because i think they must be talking to a specific group of people, certainly not me, and don't want nor need my opinion. so i ignore those posts.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Luthien' date='04 August 2010 - 09:23 PM' timestamp='1280982192' post='2152484']
Because I am a bad person.
[/quote]
i wish i could be bad like you.

[homeschoolmom]

I'm curious what the point was in bumping this thread? Things have been fairly tame here lately. Why stir the pot?

[Jaime]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='05 August 2010 - 12:11 PM' timestamp='1281024718' post='2152638']
I'm curious what the point was in bumping this thread? Things have been fairly tame here lately. Why stir the pot?
[/quote]

So some think it was bad timing to bring it up when it was created. And you think I'm "stirring the pot" by asking questions when everything is "fairly tame"


When exactly is the appropriate time for a Catholic board to talk about charity in posting folks?

I was clear about why I bumped the thread btw. I wanted to know why regular phatmassers (like yourself) decided not to respond in the poll.

[Hassan]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='05 August 2010 - 12:11 PM' timestamp='1281024718' post='2152638']
I'm curious what the point was in bumping this thread? Things have been fairly tame here lately. Why stir the pot?
[/quote]
Stirring the pot is dangerous. And danger is sexy. So somebody needed to feel sexy. So at root, this is all a self-confidence issue.