Striving For Charity

[Jaime]

[quote name='Hassan' date='05 August 2010 - 12:19 PM' timestamp='1281025183' post='2152644']
Stirring the pot is dangerous. And danger is sexy. So somebody needed to feel sexy. So at root, this is all a self-confidence issue.
[/quote]

Are you taking shots in a charity thread?

[Lil Red]

in all actuality, i couldn't care less about if someone signed the pledge or not. if they didn't, oh well. they have their reasons.

[Hassan]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='05 August 2010 - 12:23 PM' timestamp='1281025421' post='2152648']
Are you taking shots in a charity thread?
[/quote]

No, I don't even know who bumped this. I'm just being whimsical.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Hassan' date='05 August 2010 - 09:26 AM' timestamp='1281025590' post='2152652']
No, I don't even know who bumped this. I'm just being whimsical.
[/quote]
Stirring the pot is dangerous. And danger is sexy. So somebody needed to feel sexy. So at root, this is all a sham

[Jaime]

[quote name='Hassan' date='05 August 2010 - 12:26 PM' timestamp='1281025590' post='2152652']
No, I don't even know who bumped this. I'm just being whimsical.
[/quote]

No worries then. I can accept whimsy

[Hassan]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='05 August 2010 - 12:27 PM' timestamp='1281025623' post='2152653']
Stirring the pot is dangerous. And danger is sexy. So somebody needed to feel sexy. So at root, this is all a sham
[/quote]


Phatmass gave me a I Don't Rep Pope sign, obviously because they find me dangerous. Phatmass says I am sexy.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Hassan' date='05 August 2010 - 09:29 AM' timestamp='1281025759' post='2152657']
Phatmass gave me a I Don't Rep Pope sign, obviously because they find me dangerous. Phatmass says I am sexy.
[/quote]
i always knew you got your self-worth from phatmass

[Hassan]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='05 August 2010 - 12:29 PM' timestamp='1281025794' post='2152658']
i always knew you got your self-worth from phatmass
[/quote]

[ardillacid]

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Hassan' date='05 August 2010 - 09:32 AM' timestamp='1281025961' post='2152664']

[/quote]
it's okay. a lot of people do.

[ardillacid]

[Hassan]

Now that this is all wrapped up, can we help Ardill through his issues? Specifically, post #60 here concerns me a bit.

Ardill to Winchester

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=106970&st=40

[i]How do you know what my body looks like? [b]My body is a precious gift that someday I will give to my husband[/b]. He, and not some arrogant Texan, is the only man who shall see my body in all its glory. [/i]

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Hassan' date='05 August 2010 - 04:36 AM' timestamp='1280993781' post='2152542']
Here is how I see it, regarding where much of the tension has come from and why some phatmassers view this thread in a negative light. I didn't see everything that happened that night when a lot of phatmassers got suspended. I had to deal with a pair of enraged, drunken frat idiots who decided to start screaming "I will end you ****ing life" and other carious threats after I tried to get them to shut the hell up before they woke up my roommates. It seems, however, that a lot of the tensions between particular phatmassers were never resolved. That night stoked a lot of fires that had been mere embers before. Rather than allow the fire to burn out naturally, the mods clamped down. A lot of phatmassers were furious that they were suspended when you, who was seen as somebody the mods liked, were not. A lot of phatmassers were also furious about the letter. I didn't receive the letter, but I did read a copy that someone forwarded to me. The letter said that any complaints could result in a permaban or longer suspension. I think the letter was hurtful to many of them because 1-It ended with what seemed to be a somewhat snide remark about the 'fruits' of tinychat 2-The rather flippant way that the letter threatened permaban towards to phatmassers (it being a letter seemingly only adressed to one side of the argument, as it mentioned tinychat and hinted at a tinychat group) combined with the fact that the phatmassers one one side received week long suspensions and you received nothing, may give those phatmassers the impression that they are just not as valued as you, and other people who seem to them to be favored by the mods, around here. There was a sense of asymmetrical information. Most active members of the board seemed to know what happened to the tinychatters, but what happened to you, if there was any punishment at all, was a mystery. [/quote]

You leave out the key element that almost all of those people who received that letter are "maxed out" as it were on suspensions and warnings. If they break the rules again it is perfectly within the guidelines for us to suspend or ban them again. We have actually been very merciful in holding off on those measures because we do value our phamily and what each member can contribute. hot stuff WAS suspended and received the same letter as everyone else. Are you happy now that you know he got his butt kicked, too?

The only reason why some members may seen to have more "favor" with us us because they have been around longer and we know them better. Everyone gets edited and warned (and sometimes suspended) for breaking guidelines no matter how much we like them.


[quote]

So take all of those elements together. The asymmetrical information, the seeming favoritism, the sense that tinychatters really just aren't very valued here (because of the flippant way that threats of permabanning seemed to be thrown around), and the ban on discussing what happened and getting 'closure' on the issues, and then add this letter. A letter that starts off with you posting on it while the rest of us are still suspended (which came off as rubbing our faces in the fact that you seemed to get off lighter than us and generally insincere). That is bumped by some phatmassers with comments that the bumping was well timed (because it was the day we were coming back) which contributed to a sense that the letter was aimed at us. Now the letter is clearly a response to the events that happened that night, however we are not allowed to discuss the events that prompted the letter.
[/quote]

Those grievances are things which should be resolved via private correspondence, it's not appropriate for public discussion. Every time I have seen it brought up, or any semblance of it, it has devolved into flame wars and silly pictures/videos running on into 12 page threads.

[quote]It seems like the letter is designed to force tinychatters to give their word that they will be well behaved. But not just that. It seems almost to be asking them to give their names to the fact that everything is just swell and that the grievances and issues that they have are not significant or don't exist. I think Apo broached this when he said that the thread was asking for kindness rather than charity. I'd say rather that the thread is demanding pleasantness. It is trying to make them announce peace, peace, when there is no peace. With this thread, not only are they not allowed to acknowledge the grievances that they have, they are being asked to sign away that they even exist. [/quote]

As I said, those grievances should be discussed privately with the people they have beef with. Public arguments and flame wars are not appropriate behavior here.

I wasn't asking for kindness instead of charity. This isn't kindergarten, I know some people will not like others, and there are points we will always disagree on. I was asking that we all TRY to be more charitable in general, to everyone. Yes, I would like to see phatmass be a more friendly place, but I can't force anyone to be nicer. I can ASK that we try to be more charitable. And that's what I did. I've been working towards that with almost every one of my posts here at phatmass, especially since Dust made me a moderator. I have striven to be kind and charitable to everyone. I have had my failures, but I'm trying. I didn't ask anything of you guys that I don't expect of myself. I don't expect anyone to water down Truth, or just placate one another. I'm just asking that we practice a little more charity and drop the vitriol that seems to have permeated the phorum.

[quote]This feeling of an inquisition is only exacerbated when you do things like this. Seeming to hound phatmassers who have not signed and asking why they haven't signed. I'm not trying to say that that is what you are trying to do. I just think that to some tinychatters that is the vibe they get. You keep bringing this thread back up, and wondering aloud why some active phatmassers haven't signed and it just makes it feel more like trap.

I'm not saying this view is valid or that I share it. I'm just trying to help you and others understand why I think some tinychatters are uncomfortable with this thread. And while I don't agree with it, I do understand it. Yes, when I saw this thread and you posting in it while I was still suspended, it felt like a slap in the face. I had always been grateful to phatmass because I really, truly had always felt that even though I am a non-Catholic, I still got a fair shake here. Yeah, I had gotten warning that I felt were unwarranted, but they balanced out the times I got away with pushing the envelope. In fact when I first got on tinychat, before I saw this, I was defending the decision of the mods. I assumed that everyone who had crossed the line had gotten a vacation, and said it was probably best that things had a chance to cool down. When I saw you posting again after a few days, and talking about how great you thought the thread was, I really felt that for the first time I had been unfairly treated here. A lot of people were angry about that. I also understand why the letter caused so much anger. I fell that a lot of the anger it provoked was misdirected, but I could see how someone could really feel like they were not 'really' part of the 'phamily' with the tone of the letter. [/quote]

As I noted earlier, everyone did get punished. You don't know all the background details and none of you is actually entitled to anything other than what went on with your own warn logs. I started this thread after that fateful night because it felt like it had been a very long time in coming. Several months ago Raphael suggested that we try to make some sort of reformation around here to promote more charity and I kind of blew him off and told him we couldn't force anyone to do that, we could suggest it but no one could be made to be more charitable. I told him we should lead by example. When I posted this thread I did it because I decided that he was right, and I hate seeing phatmass go to hell in a hand-basket so I wanted to try and do what he had suggested so long ago and ask everyone to promote charity.

[quote]
I also think that a lot of people have a harder time with this than I do. I never expect to be fully integrated. I'm not an orthodox Catholic. Combine that with the fact that I genuinely like all the mods and try to see where they are coming from, and just don't have as much invested in this place as some do, and I obviously would be able to get past some of these things faster than others. I think other phatmassers are much more concerned with being fully accepted and respected here and for them this was a much deeper wound and is still unable to heal because the grievances were never healed. for me, that night was much more personal, I had a problem with you. Not phatmass, just you. We have both apologized and said we would try to be better to each other in the future, so for me this issue is really over. But for other phatmassers, the 'flamewar' with you really was just symptomatic of much deeper issues of feeling mod favoritism, not being valued, et cetera. And this thread is just kind of a continued reminder and exacerbator of those issues.

Now, it is quite late I am quite tired, and I typed all this up pretty quickly and without re-reading it (which is actually normal) so if that was a giant, disorganized mess, I'm sorry. If I misrepresented any of my fellow tinychatters, I'm sorry. I just would like this to shed some light on things and help clear all this mess.
[/quote]

If people really have some deep seated problem with a particular member, hot stuff or otherwise, they should try to mend those fences privately or put that person on ignore. Every person who was suspended that night has been around here long enough and is old enough to know how to deal with one another as adults. It's frustrating to see a group of adults acting like 5th graders.

As far as being "fully accepted and respected" goes I honestly don't know what you're talking about. Do some people feel left out because they aren't best buds with moderators? I have very few people that I am especially close to around here and the majority of those few have been here almost as long as I have. People come and go, I have taken "vacations" because real life has gotten in the way so I don't know some members as well as others. But I do try to treat everyone equally. I may have more jokes with some than others, but I don't treat those others like trash either.



[quote name='Terra Firma' date='05 August 2010 - 07:14 AM' timestamp='1281003272' post='2152553']
I have been around a long time, and I haven't signed this pledge for two reasons.

I felt the thread was poorly timed. I watched many of the events prior to this thread's inception from the sidelines, and this thread seemed like a one-sided, in-your-face, put-down to some of the participants in those events. That really rubbed me the wrong way, even though I was not one of the participants. This read of the thread was reinforced when it was bumped just as several people returned from their "vacations." I thought that was in particularly poor taste, even though my sarcastic comment to that effect probably didn't effectively communicate that.

I don't intend the previous sentences to be a criticism of the mod who started this thread; I don't want to be warned or banned any more than any other person does, and I also recognize that my read of the intention behind the thread may be wrong. This is why I haven't said anything more direct in the past, and have instead abstained from voting in the pledge or making any substantive comment about it.

Aside from my feelings on all the politics that may or may not be involved, I don't feel inclined to sign a pledge like this online because I feel "striving toward charity" is an integral part of every Christian's calling. I made the pledge to strive toward charity when I joined the Church, and I renew it every time I participate in the sacraments offered through the Church. To my way of thinking it is needlessly redundant to sign a pledge like this online, particularly when the pledge potentially carries with it emotionally charged political baggage.
[/quote]

I don't take your comments as criticism and I respect your reasons for not voting in the poll/pledge. The timing on this WAS croutons. But it was a crappy situation that caused me to feel that it was warranted. For me it wasn't an "us versus them" thing, it was a "holy cow, this smells of elderberries and we need to do something to make phatmass a better place" thing. I didn't mean to put down any "side", I meant to try and pull all of us together in a concentrated effort to be more charitable. That was my only intention and I did think it was pretty clear when I started the thread. Apparently almost everyone here has misconstrued my intentions in one way or another. I have seen people using the thread for their own intentions since the first page, that truly saddened me. They completely missed the point.


[quote name='Lil Red' date='05 August 2010 - 01:01 PM' timestamp='1281024117' post='2152629']
that's darn obvious so far, because nothing has changed.
[/quote]

Unfortunately true.

[IcePrincessKRS]

Sorry I interrupted all that whimsy with seriousness.

To be clear, though I felt this might be dangerous territory I always feel sexy. So it was pretty much win for me to start the thread.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' date='05 August 2010 - 09:40 AM' timestamp='1281026441' post='2152671']
I don't take your comments as criticism and I respect your reasons for not voting in the poll/pledge. The timing on this WAS croutons. But it was a crappy situation that caused me to feel that it was warranted. For me it wasn't an "us versus them" thing, it was a "holy cow, this smells of elderberries and we need to do something to make phatmass a better place" thing. I didn't mean to put down any "side", I meant to try and pull all of us together in a concentrated effort to be more charitable. That was my only intention and I did think it was pretty clear when I started the thread. Apparently almost everyone here has misconstrued my intentions in one way or another. I have seen people using the thread for their own intentions since the first page, that truly saddened me. They completely missed the point.
[/quote]
i love you.