EmilyAnn Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 A while ago there was a thread on this subject and the idea was mentioned of putting all the questions from various threads together somehow. I think I've managed to get them all, although my organisation of it leaves something to be desired (I've been doing it in bits whenever I've had the chance). I made it as a Google Doc that you can find here as well. I think I got them all but if I've missed any let me know! :) Spiritual Practices Prayer & Liturgy What is the main form of liturgy that is celebrated? Is their liturgy in the vernacular or in Latin (or both)? Do they have both forms of the Mass? How often are each celebrated? Do they have a daily Mass? If not, how often is Mass celebrated? How often are they able to receive the Eucharist? How often does the community pray together? What form does their prayer take? Divine Office, Morning and Evening prayer, etc. Do they have regular Adoration? Do they pray the Rosary together? Is there any other communal prayer that may take place? How often is there time for private prayer? Do they observe any periods of silence? Is Lectio Divina practiced or encouraged? Charism and Spirituality What vows do they take? Do they take an ‘extra’ vow? What is it, and what role does it play in their life? What is their understanding of each of their vows? How do they live out the charism of their founder/foundress? Have they ever undergone a reformation? If so, why and how did it impact the community? How did they incorporate the spirit of Vatican II (if applicable)? In what ways did they change? Have their constitutions ever changed? If so, how and why? What forms of penance do they practice? Do they practice fasting? How often? Do they practice corporal penances? What and how? Will you have access to a regular confessor or spiritual director? Will you be able to seek direction from someone outside/not directly connected to the community? Entrance and Formation Application What is the process of application like? What experience of the life and community is given before entrance? Do you need to take a psychological exam? Will you be expected to pay for this? Do you need a medical exam? Will you be expected to pay for this? What references will you need? Any other aspects of application? What requirements or restrictions are there for potential applicants? Educational level - do they require a degree or just to have completed compulsory schooling? Do they have any age limits, either upper or lower? Any other requirements or restrictions? Formation What is the process of formation? How long are the various stages of formation? How is one ‘eased’ into the life? What adjustments are made for new entrants? Are some stages variable? What affects this? Where might formation take place? (if applicable) Do members change their name? What input does one have in their name? What schooling or academic study is undertaken? How does the community handle it if someone in formation wishes to leave? What if they were asked to leave? How would this be handled? What help would the community offer you in leaving? What is the ‘dropout’ rate of those who enter? What would happen if you became seriously ill during formation (either before or after temporary vows)? Finances What sort of financial responsibilities are there? Is there a dowry? How much is it? Do you need to provide your own medical insurance during formation? Are there any other costs you will need to take care of? Will you be expected to pay for psychological or medical tests at entrance? How does the community provide for itself? Do they rely on donations and benefactors? What source(s) of income do they have? Communications and Contacts Communication How often do you communicate with friends and family? How often may you receive letters from family? How often may you write to them? How often may you receive letters from friends? How often may you write to them? Is your correspondence read by your superior? Are there any other restrictions? Do they have good relations with the community they live in? How do they interact with them? Visits How often do you get home visits (if applicable)? When do these home visits typically occur? Are exceptions or changes made if a family member is sick or dying? Are there any other restrictions? How often do you get visits from friends and family? How often may family visit? Would exceptions be made if a close relative was sick or dying? How often may friends visit? Are you allowed visits from single opposite-sex friends? Are there any other restrictions? Apostolate and Work Apostolate What is their main apostolate (if applicable)? If they have multiple apostolates, how are assignments given? Do you you have any input in your assignment? Are they politically active? Would you potentially move between houses of an order or go to another country? Would you have any input in where you went? Work (not an outside apostolate) What form does their work (not outside apostolate) take? How are work assignments given? Do you have any input in your work assignment? How do they balance work and prayer in their life? How do they actively live the corporal works of mercy? Do they offer hospitality to others? What form does this take? Miscellaneous Do they wear a habit or distinctive garb? Has this changed at any point? Why or why not? How do they feel their garb reflects their way of life? If you have a special talent or hobby (music, arts, etc.), would you be allowed to continue it or would you be asked to give it up? How is the community governed? How is it organised? In the case of a living founder, is there any body that has a voice? How are problems within the community dealt with? If you felt you needed therapy or counselling of any kind, would that be allowed? Would it be seen as a weakness or a problem?
nikita92 Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 Thank you for taking the time, effort and energy to do this! I appreciate it
NotreDame Posted December 17, 2013 Posted December 17, 2013 This is good. I too made a note from the two relevant posts below: http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/131129-questions-to-ask-during-visits/page-2 http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/77767-going-on-a-nun-run/?p=1473662#.Uq4CP41Oldg A couple things I'd add: Finances: Will you be told to ask your family for donations? Who will pay for trips to visit family? When will you be asked to divest any savings? (Answer should be at final profession) At that point, can you give it to anyone or must you give it to the community? Do they have the means and willingness to "care for you" in the event of a serious disease, illness or accident before you make solemn vows? Miscellaneous: What is the sleep schedule and arrangements? Are there are any penitential practices that modify the sleep schedule. How do they encourage and promote a healthy (physically) lifestyle? (Foods, exercise, etc.) Have they ever been investigated by a Bishop or Papal visitor? Has a founder/superior ever resigned? My personal note: Alot of the questionable new orders tend have a multiplicity of devotions, which can be dangerous. A tight sleep schedule and low-protein diet is ok for cloistered carmelites, but it's not ok for a very active order. Likewise, a very active order requires that special attention be given to prayer time in order to balance out the activity (many saints and theologians have written about this.) In the traditional orders the rule took care of this. In new groups where they are making up their charism (sometimes as they go along) they sometimes get imprudently overzealous and don't give this the proper attention.
EmilyAnn Posted December 17, 2013 Author Posted December 17, 2013 Thanks NotreDame, those are great questions! I've added them to the Google Docs version of the questions.
HisChild Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) Edit to quote NotreDame: "Have they ever been investigated by a Bishop or Papal visitor? Has a founder/superior ever resigned?" Okay, this made me laugh out loud. All I could think of was...if a community had been investigated, would they admit it? :unsure: But all were EXCELLENT questions. :bravo: I kind of wish I'd thought of some of them and/or asked them when I was discerning. IMO, just as the community/order gives the aspirant an application, they should receive one in return...or at least have most of these covered in a brochure or website. Edited December 18, 2013 by HisChild
DiscerningCatholic Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) A bunch of these are questions that the sisters in my prospective community wouldn't answer. A lot of girls asked these and heard, "Um...you'll find out if you enter!" I got "You'll find out when you enter, Trini!!!" Of course, I re-worded the questions and then asked if I got married and still wanted to know if they'd tell me... :think: :hehe: ETA: These are good questions, though! Edited December 18, 2013 by DiscerningCatholic
HisChild Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 I agree. There are many that several communities wouldn't answer to maintain the mystery of it all. I think, if some of these questions were answered prior to entrance, some wouldn't enter and/or those who did enter would be more prepared for what they were beginning and might persevere longer.
NotreDame Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 Edit to quote NotreDame: "Have they ever been investigated by a Bishop or Papal visitor? Has a founder/superior ever resigned?" Okay, this made me laugh out loud. All I could think of was...if a community had been investigated, would they admit it? :unsure: :hehe2: Good point. But they should admit it, right? My thought is this. If a place is lying to you, you'll still probably find out once inside. And if they are lying you don't want to be there anyway. Catching them in a lie could be a useful sign that you need to leave (because I'm assuming these particular places also limit correspondence and and spiritual direction, so you'll need to rely on concrete signs... speaking from experience, unfortunately.)
Cherie Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 I agree. There are many that several communities wouldn't answer to maintain the mystery of it all. I think, if some of these questions were answered prior to entrance, some wouldn't enter and/or those who did enter would be more prepared for what they were beginning and might persevere longer. That's interesting; I know many communities mention that there should be a certain aspect of "mystery" surrounding the life, and to a degree, I understand. However, a lot of those questions are serious, and if a community was clearly uncomfortable answering them or flat out refused to answer them, I think (depending on what question it was) it might constitute a red flag. Some of the "lesser important" questions that pertain to more trivial matters (as mentioned in another thread, something like asking the table etiquette!), yes, I can understand a community wanting that to be something of a "mystery" that a candidate learns upon entering. You don't want to ask about every little aspect of the life there; some things you will just have to learn--and should learn--by experiencing the life itself. But for important questions, a community should not be uncomfortable answering them, or, worse yet, refuse to answer them. I'd love to hear from members of VS who are religious how they view these questions, and if they would be uncomfortable being asked/answering them, and if so, which ones and why; not in order to point fingers or anything like that at all, but simply to understand a community's thought process on these issues a little better.
OnlySunshine Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 I agree. There are many that several communities wouldn't answer to maintain the mystery of it all. I think, if some of these questions were answered prior to entrance, some wouldn't enter and/or those who did enter would be more prepared for what they were beginning and might persevere longer. I was aware of the fact that the community my friend was entering did not allow Sisters to go home regularly even though they are active/contemplative. They space the visits out every 10 years or so. She had no idea about this! I somehow shared it with her because we were talking about when I'd see her again. She was more than a little surprised! If she didn't know, her family certainly didn't! Imagine going into a community thinking you'll see them in a few years at home but realize that they'll only get to visit you on a semi-regular basis (excluding novitiate). I don't think communities should keep things like this a secret.
HisChild Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 Very good points by MaterMisericordiae and CherieMadame. I hadn't even thought about the visits...it depended on the sister's distance from her family in one community I entered, due to expense, but once able to visit their visits were sometimes longer. I think that practice has changed for them. I think there are many things that should remain a little ethereal and mysterious until entrance like what one wears to bed, blessings received at various times of the day by the prioress or the various prayers a sister prays as she dons each piece of her habit. But the items mentioned, particularly the OP by EmilyAnn and the questions by NotreDame are pretty appropriate. After all, you as the aspirant are investing a lot of money and time just to potentially enter. I'm not even talking about the lifetime commitment that's made if you're meant to pursue there. Some of those things listed above, the Horarium, communal and personal prayer times and practices, apostolates, etc. are pretty basic...those things should be made known long before the first visit. Knowing if you'll be seeing family in two years or ten, for instance, is pretty significant. Knowing if you're required to pay your medical insurance the entire time you're in novitiate or just as a postulant... these things matter. Not to be flip, but wouldn't it be great for the discerner to be able to pull up a spreadsheet that listed some of these things? It would be a great way for her to say "this community is not the one for me" or "this is something I feel called to, when I pray". When I first discerned, very few communities even had websites (that was in the early 90s). I wrote to so many. Talk about confusing! Great thread!
cmaD2006 Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) A bunch of these are questions that the sisters in my prospective community wouldn't answer. A lot of girls asked these and heard, "Um...you'll find out if you enter!" I got "You'll find out when you enter, Trini!!!" Of course, I re-worded the questions and then asked if I got married and still wanted to know if they'd tell me... DiscerningCatholic: I'm really curious as to what sort of questions weren't answered. Because as someone else said (CherieMadame and HisChild) that makes a big difference. For example: it is different if questions such as "what kind of chores am I expected to do?" or "do you wear your habit to bed" are asked vs. "how are home visits handled" or "how often are you allowed to contact family?" Edited December 18, 2013 by cmaD2006
TheresaThoma Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 Some of the harder questions (ie have they been investigated etc) are probably not the questions you want to be asking right off but should be asked at some point. I think a lot can be learned about a community in how they answer the "hard" questions. Personally I had some doubts about the community I am discerning based on a couple of articles I had read.I felt really uncomfortable about asking because I wasn't sure if it was something that I should be asking. I finally asked the Sister I was in contact with and she was so kind and open and assured me that it was perfectly acceptable to be asking about stuff like that. The way she responded was almost more reassuring than her actual response (which totally resolved my doubts).
maximillion Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 GREAT thread! Thanks so much for putting it all together Emilyann! I know I joked somewhere else that I did a SWOT analysis of the main communities I was thinking about before I entered (I have always been analytical), but in all honesty, it might be a good idea! I agree so wholeheartedly that given the investment of time, emotion, preparation, and finances involved in entry that it is reasonable to have the most amount of information possible in advance - gong back to my notion of 'informed consent' also in another thread. I also agree that how a community handles the hard questions can be a good indication of how they may handle hard issues within the community. There have to be checks and balances, rights and responsibilities on both parts, that of the prospective community and that of the discerner.
EmilyAnn Posted December 18, 2013 Author Posted December 18, 2013 Yes, I agree with TT that these are not questions that necessarily need to be asked right away. But I don't think any of them are unreasonable for someone who is in serious discernment to want to know. Given the investment you're making it's important to know what you're getting into. On the mention of some questions not being answered, are there questions I've included that any of you think are things a community is unlikely to answer? Of course there are things that a community will want to keep private but while I don't think any of these questions violate that I could be wrong.
Cherie Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 Personally, in looking at this list, I don't see any questions that I think are trivial or that a community should not answer in order to preserve the "mystery" of the life. It seems to me that all of the listed questions HERE, anyway, are in the realm of important. You'll notice questions like, "What do you wear to bed?" or "How is your habit made?" and similar questions that only serve to satisfy mere curiosity aren't listed here. If I am wrong on that, I'd love for someone, particularly religious themselves if possible, to correct me on that, in all honesty. I know some communities might not like to be "bombarded" with questions, and like I mentioned before, if you're trying to find out about every single little aspect of their lives down to the smallest detail, yeah, I understand! But like others mention, there is a huge emotional, financial, etc investment into entering religious life, and many of these questions a potential candidate really has a right to know, particularly because the answer could affect whether or not they feel it is appropriate to make the step to enter. Just like sometimes you may go into a doctor's office wanting to know some specifics but going blank when the time for questions actually comes, a person discerning can feel a little overwhelmed or even have a little naïveté and not know what questions or ask, or even IF any questions should be asked. I'm really happy such a list has been put in one place - thanks for your work Emily Ann, and for your contributions, NotreDame! When I was discerning, I wish I would have had a list like this. Even if I didn't ask ALL the above questions, many of them I wish I HAD asked beforehand, as the answer to them was not given to me beforehand and it likely would have affected my willingness to choose the community I did if I had known the answer.
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 DiscerningCatholic: I'm really curious as to what sort of questions weren't answered. Because as someone else said (CherieMadame and HisChild) that makes a big difference. For example: it is different if questions such as "what kind of chores am I expected to do?" or "do you wear your habit to bed" are asked vs. "how are home visits handled" or "how often are you allowed to contact family?" I wondered the same thing about which questions the community wouldn't answer. Many of these questions might not be appropriate for a woman attending a discernment retreat, and I could fully understand if the community said that the questions would be answered later, if the applicant was in serious discernment. But, all of them sound to me like legitimate questions to be answered if an applicant is in the final stages of discernment before entering, not AFTER entering. I think the answers to some of these questions would be of help to a discerner in deciding if this is indeed the community to which she is being called. To wait until after a woman has entered might be too late. After all, entering a community isn't like applying to college. While postulancy is certainly intended as a time to try one's vocation, when a woman (or man) enters the monastery, the postulant enters intending it to be for life. Entering religious life is a MUCH bigger commitment, and most women or men entering do things like trying to get rid of most of their possessions, saying good-bye to friends, etc--they leave with the intention that "this is it." Similarly, it is much harder emotionally when a woman or man leaves a community, even if the community is a healthy one and their leaving was handled with love and care. This is especially true if the person is asked to leave.
IgnatiusofLoyola Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 I'd love to hear from members of VS who are religious how they view these questions, and if they would be uncomfortable being asked/answering them, and if so, which ones and why; not in order to point fingers or anything like that at all, but simply to understand a community's thought process on these issues a little better. I hope some of VS's religious members answer. However, we may not get answers right away, because we are now getting close to Christmas, and many communities try to devote this time to spiritual preparation. For example, Sister Mary Catharine's community has now closed its convent shop until after the New Year so that the Sisters can prepare spiritually for Christmas. I don't know if that also means that she will not be visiting Phatmass or posting, but it wouldn't surprise me if we don't hear from her for several weeks, at minimum.
HisChild Posted December 18, 2013 Posted December 18, 2013 Personally, in looking at this list, I don't see any questions that I think are trivial or that a community should not answer in order to preserve the "mystery" of the life. It seems to me that all of the listed questions HERE, anyway, are in the realm of important. You'll notice questions like, "What do you wear to bed?" or "How is your habit made?" and similar questions that only serve to satisfy mere curiosity aren't listed here. If I am wrong on that, I'd love for someone, particularly religious themselves if possible, to correct me on that, in all honesty. I know some communities might not like to be "bombarded" with questions, and like I mentioned before, if you're trying to find out about every single little aspect of their lives down to the smallest detail, yeah, I understand! But like others mention, there is a huge emotional, financial, etc investment into entering religious life, and many of these questions a potential candidate really has a right to know, particularly because the answer could affect whether or not they feel it is appropriate to make the step to enter. Just like sometimes you may go into a doctor's office wanting to know some specifics but going blank when the time for questions actually comes, a person discerning can feel a little overwhelmed or even have a little naïveté and not know what questions or ask, or even IF any questions should be asked. I'm really happy such a list has been put in one place - thanks for your work Emily Ann, and for your contributions, NotreDame! When I was discerning, I wish I would have had a list like this. Even if I didn't ask ALL the above questions, many of them I wish I HAD asked beforehand, as the answer to them was not given to me beforehand and it likely would have affected my willingness to choose the community I did if I had known the answer. Yes. That.
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