Too old For a vocation?

[Vocation to love]

No! Anyone can be called by God at any time. Just look at Abraham, Moses and the prophets. Do we always want the calling - no. Again look at the prophets . Is it always convenient? No Is it logical by human standards - no. Does God always ask us to do things that sit well with us - no. Scripture, apparitions such as those which occurred in Lourdes and  so forth show us constantly that God takes us out of our comfort zones for a purpose and this is often revealed very slowly. Wait patiently for the Lord

[Vocation to love]

Older Women,for more, do look at the website. 

[vyvy07]

A seminarian once told me, "You're never too old or too young to begin discerning your vocation!" 

[Vocation to love]

Thanks vyvy07 the seminarian was dead right.  God calls us every day to something. I believe vocation is every day.  We may simply be called to smile at someone who looks down. God calls us all to something special. I think it's very important to know that although some Religious Orders say they only take people up to 35 that God continues to call those who are 36 and above. Also God calls some widows too to religious life.  It would be great to think a whole army of women could be freed up and mobilised to evangelise. No more going to Mass in the mornings and then feeling lonely but being given the opportunity to gain a new energy, focus and vision enabling them to use their skills and experience. 

The two last Popes were in their 70s when called by God to be Pope. In England the leader of the Labour Party was 67 when he was elected and the conservative leader was 58. Trump is 70 and H.Clinton is 68.  Why can't we use Catholic older women's energy to spread the Gospel? 

That's my sermon for the day! 

 

Edited October 31, 2016 by Vocation to love

[Maggyie]

"No more going to Mass in the morning and then feeling lonely." My one quibble is with this - religious orders can't really do the job of assuaging older people's loneliness, by having them as members of the order.  By ministering to them as part of their charism perhaps! But unfortunately, if you are lonely out of religious life there's a good chance you will be lonely in it. 

[Vocation to love]

Maggyie, I can see what you are saying but don't agree in general. I am not an old person and have a great social life but I have met many older people who at heart are still young. They are full of energy and really feel strongly about social justice but unfortunately many other people have views similar to you, which in some cases are right but mostly is a misunderstanding of older people's capabilities. No one would think the Pope would need ministering to. He is 'elderly' doesn't like being on his own (he clearly stated the reason why he didn't want to be in the papal apartments was because he felt happier with people) but he has more energy than most. It was the same with Mother Teresa and as I stated above all US and UK governments have older people in power. It seems a peculiar Catholic thing to not recognise that not every older person is a dodgery person who can hardly get along. Older people's frustration brings loneliness- yes - but so would young people  feel lonely who were left on the margins of society being told that they need to be looked after and they had no say. In African society elderly people are respected for their wisdom and are very much part of decision making. 

I am an absolutely loyal Catholic and like the Pope said if someone attacks the Church it would feel like someone attacking my mum to me but I feel that the Church is missing out by not involving experienced, professional and good-hearted  evangelisers and this includes within religious orders. 

Edited October 31, 2016 by Vocation to love

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Maggyie said:

"No more going to Mass in the morning and then feeling lonely." My one quibble is with this - religious orders can't really do the job of assuaging older people's loneliness, by having them as members of the order.  By ministering to them as part of their charism perhaps! But unfortunately, if you are lonely out of religious life there's a good chance you will be lonely in it. 

I have heard the above type of reasoning before.  I don't think that God only and of necessity calls or vocates through positive emotions and dispositions, sometimes life can be experienced as empty or meaningless - or even lonely - beginning the search for something more and finding one's vocation in life through that search which has commenced in negativity and concluded in fulfilment.

Those in mature age are still being called by God (the vocational call is a daily lifelong experience) and it will be through their experience of life in their more advanced years they will come to understand that daily call. 

As a general comment: I think it is a (possibly harmful) mistake to assess the value of one's life through activity(s) undertaken.  Also, it can be quite difficult once one is living alone through circumstances and when age and physical restrictions means that one can no longer undertake activity embraced previously. Once one can no longer be about what once provided fulfilment and meaning.  It is a process of letting go (detachment) and redefining (searching for God's Will for one's life).

To view those in mature or advanced years as only objects of charitable venture or charism is a mistake.

Also, that call which can exist in mature age to allow others to help even provide for them can be a road to holiness.  As can the road of illness etc. whether that road necessitates the assistance of others in some major or minor way or whether it does not.

Perspective and attitude.

Deo Gratius

[Guest]

I have a few questions.  Your website is brief unless I missed something.

I believe you are located in the UK?

How many are in your community?

How long have you existed as a community? Are you a public or private association of the faithful or ?

How involved is your bishop?

What structure does formation take?

 

 

 

 

[beatitude]

Hi VocationForAll,

It's a rule on Phatmass that only communities that have been given diocesan approval can be promoted here, so I have removed the link to your website for the time being. If you can supply proof that the community has the full support of your bishop, then you're welcome to post it.

We have this rule because in the past there were members who posted prolifically about communities that they hoped to found but that didn't actually exist. In some cases they pretended to have diocesan support when they didn't. This was obviously confusing and unhelpful for discerners, so now we are careful only to promote new communities that are firmly under the wing of their diocese.

Prayers for you and for you to find God's will in your life.

[Vocation to love]

BarbaraTherese I find your comments interesting as they reflect what I consider a laziness of thought.  There is absolutely no doubt and I totally agree with you that a person is not a means to an end and  a person is not valuable because of their productivity level but simply because they are made in the image of God.  Therefore the suffering person, whether young or old disabled or depressed,  is not worthless but Is loved greatly by God and their suffering can be a means of salvation for them and others.  There are, however, many many people who are physically able and willing who do want to be more involved and are called by God to be so but struggle against the perception that older means incapable. I am sure you are not saying that all older people should do nothing even if they want to do something.  The Catholic Church as you know is different from the Protestant community in that it teaches that it is through faith AND good works that we are saved whereas the Protestant community teaches faith alone.  If older people want to be more nvolved then the Church should help them to be more involved not put up obstacles.  I know you wouldn't say that the Pope shouldn't do what he does because of his age. It's not a case of forcing people to act but freeing up and enabling those who wish to do so. 

I think it is important that you read comments carefully before replying because your reply made many assumptions which were not and never would be contained in my comment. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No problem Beatitude :-)

[Vocation to love]

Vyvy07 Thank you for your message. I have also found this Catholic answers website useful.  It can help people by giving answers to their questions re faith but also helps, as does this one in bringing Catholics together. http://forums.catholic.com/

God bless 

Vocation to Love 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Vocation to love said:

Read your opinions and comments, VTL.  Thank you for sharing  

 

 

[Vocation to love]

You're welcome BT 

[Maggyie]

I do think the church can do a better job at offering roles, especially as people live longer. Perhaps something structured for widows for instance, along the lines of what's been restored for consecrated virginity. Although I don't think such a tradition existed in the past, it could be new wine in old wine skins. In the old days there were also far more anchorites and hermits. 

It is important to add that third orders don't have any age limit that I'm aware of - thrice divorced, late convert Jane Wyman was a Dominican tertiary and buried in the habit. My understanding is most third order members have this privilege of wearing the habit in their grave, although of course in life they would not wear one.

Although it's beyond painful to feel called, and also feel you aren't able to fully answer, the most important thing is that the path to holiness is just as open to older people who find themselves in this situation. Truly there is no good work that one can do in a religious order that one can't do out of it. The Church needs and is counting on the good hearts and evangelization talents of older people. 

[Vocation to love]

I agree Maggyie with all the points you have made but I also feel sad for the many who have been hurt by their experiences of religious life where formation is one size fits all.  It is a very very difficult topic to approach as the religious orders do their best to deal with diminishing numbers they are not able to form people individually unlike male seminaries set up for the older person.  I believe in most cases the religious orders are doing their best but no-one can expect an older person to pretend that they are 20 with no experience, studies or life skills. To ask this of a person can be a misunderstanding of what it means to be humble. 

[Nunsuch]

Vocation to love, I don't think that MOST formation these days is "one size fits all" at all. In most congregations in the US, given that the numbers are small and the focus on individuals is great, most I know who have been information recently have found the process highly individualized and hardly rigid. You may be referring to an out of date and highly regimented model, but it's by no means all that is out there--or even predominant. 

I know women of all ages, from their twenties to their late fifties, who have gone through formation in the past decade or so--some in the same congregation. Each had experiences that were geared very particularly to their needs, spiritual circumstances, and what they brought to the community.  I don't know with whom you have been speaking, but they clearly are not those I have come to know and work with. 

[Spem in alium]

We need to be open to older people who do feel called, but at the same time have boundaries to protect the person entering and the community - for the similar reason why many religious congregations do not accept people under the age of 18. Some may even tell an 18-year-old interested in joining to wait a few years.

Once you have a certain amount of life experience in the "secular world" (not 100% satisfied with that term, but it will do for now), it's very difficult to transition. I'm in my 20s, but I even feel that difficulty. It's difficult to go from being independent to being dependent; from earning money to having nothing; from being around my family to seeing them infrequently; from working to being at home in the convent. Granted, I have far less experience than a person in their 30s, 40s or 50s, but these things are hard. They take courage, humility and openness to change, all of which I really need.

There have been older women enter my congregation and refuse to do things the way they were asked to do because it wasn't how they had done it before. I'm not saying that all older people would do that, but as we do get older it's less easy for us to be able to be formed as an individual. I think this is partly because we've formed ourselves already, more or less, and partly because it requires a lot of dependence.

4 minutes ago, Nunsuch said:

Vocation to love, I don't think that MOST formation these days is "one size fits all" at all. In most congregations in the US, given that the numbers are small and the focus on individuals is great, most I know who have been information recently have found the process highly individualized and hardly rigid. You may be referring to an out of date and highly regimented model, but it's by no means all that is out there--or even predominant. 

I know women of all ages, from their twenties to their late fifties, who have gone through formation in the past decade or so--some in the same congregation. Each had experiences that were geared very particularly to their needs, spiritual circumstances, and what they brought to the community.  I don't know with whom you have been speaking, but they clearly are not those I have come to know and work with. 

Exactly! I am the only candidate in formation in my province, so my formation has had to be individualised  I can see that formation needs to be tailored to each person, because each of us is unique, with individual needs, experiences, weaknesses and gifts.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Spem in alium

[Maggyie]

I understand Vocation to Love, and I feel for anyone who has been hurt by the practices of the church. It can be easy for people in different situations than the "norm" to be made to feel unwanted and useless; but truly they are priceless gifts we can not do without. 

[Vocation to love]

Thank you for your comments. I am heartened to hear of your personal stories and that in your experiences there has been individualised formation.  This is very important. Spem I totally agree that it is harder when you are used to being independent to join a community.  I wouldn't disagree at all but it also is the case that many older applicants have struggled because formation was not tailored to the individual. In fact in one case one person was told it was impossible to form older and younger people side by side as this would lead to inconsistencies.  I am sure the people who say and believe these things are not Ill-meaning but this model of formation is unhelpful. That's what I'm trying to say and I think you are agreeing with. 

Maggyie you have a good heart. God bless you.

[Sister Leticia]

There was a reference at the beginning of this thread to "some Religious Orders say they only take people up to 35". Here in the UK I can think of only one community which advertises its vocation events for women up to 35 - and for all I know they might be open to discerning with someone a couple of years older. Meanwhile off the top of my head I can think of 2 monasteries and several apostolic orders (including ourselves) with people in initial formation in their 40s and 50s - and there are many other orders who have had, or would be open to, candidates at least up to their early 50s.

In addition, a congregation was founded in England in 1982 specifically for older women - Mater Ecclesiae http://www.mater-ecclesiae-convent.co.uk/

Smaller noviciate intakes mean that as far as possible formation can be geared to the individual, for entrants of all ages, so that experience, education, gifts - and lack of them - can be taken into account. For example, one entrant might have worked in a homeless project, but needs some classes in basic theology, while another one has studied it to postgraduate level but has never been near a soup kitchen, and so on. BUT there will also be times for all of us, regardless of age, when we might have to swallow our pride and hold back from sharing our expertise, or accept being the "newbie" and not being the expert or the leader or the one who "does" and "achieves". And swallowing our pride isn't easy, by any means - but it's one of the many small renunciations we can make for love of the God who has called us.