Who created God?

[kyledewolf85]

So, we've all heard the argument, if God created the universe, then who created God? If we say that God always existed, the argument goes boom, why couldn't the universe always exist? Gotcha. 

How do we respond to this argument?

I believe that the answer must be that the universe undergoes change, whereas God does not change. Since the universe undergoes change, there must be a first cause that initiates that change. However, since God does not undergo change, God does not need a first cause to initiate any change within him. So, God is the first cause of all change within the universe. It is logically necessary that the first cause of all change should itself be an unchangeable being since there would not be anything else causing or initiating change within it. 

Creation may be seen as a particular form of change in which an entity "changes" from non-being into being. It seems logical to me that there cannot be an infinite regression of creators, with somebody else before God creating God, and then somebody else before him creating that God, and so on. So, there must be a first creator, and it follows that the first creator is an unchangeable being. 

[GraceUk]

My Dad lost his faith and used to say this. I don't think he was an atheist but didn't really believed wholeheartedly.   I try not to over think things. St Therese of Lisieux had the right approach I think. 

[kyledewolf85]

The Catholic Church teaches that we can know the existence of God with certainty based on the natural light of reason (CCC #36). However, this certainty differs from faith, which is a supernatural gift of the Holy Spirit (CCC #153). Of the two, faith is more important because it is necessary for our salvation (aside from impediments that might be said to create an "invincible ignorance"), but I am still interested in exploring the rational certainty of God's existence since it is still an article of faith that this type of knowledge is possible. What was St Therese's approach?

[GraceUk]

I haven't read St There'se's  Story of a Soul for many many years but her faith was just childlike and unquestionning.  And total acceptance of the greatness of God. For myself the more I look for proof and rationalisation the more doubting I become. 

[Didacus]

kyle, you are not very far from the Truth.

God being the Creator, is Himself not created.  As such, God exists independently of time, is not subject to time (as time is part of creation) and thus without being subject to time, He is unchanging.

He is the first mover, not Himself subject to movement.

Eternity = absence of time.

Eternity does not equal endless amount of time.

 

it is key to understand that differentiation in order to properly understand the nature of God and His role as creator.

[Credo in Deum]

On 3/26/2024 at 12:20 PM, kyledewolf85 said:

So, we've all heard the argument, if God created the universe, then who created God? If we say that God always existed, the argument goes boom, why couldn't the universe always exist? Gotcha.

I would simply say nowhere in physical reality has it been observed that something has come from nothing; there was always something which preceded that which was created.  If everything in physical reality had to have had a beginning, then we know it didn't create itself.  Since we know the universe had a beginning, as we can see the universe is changing, then we have to accept that at some point, if we keep going back, we are going to have to arrive at a source which transcends this law of needing a creator.  Since nothing in physical reality can do that, the source would have to be supernatural, and thus not bound by change, or the need of a creator.  We call this thing, God.  

Edited April 13 by Credo in Deum