Should women wear

[BLAZEr]

[quote name='spathariossa' date='Dec 8 2004, 02:19 AM'] Changing doctrine is the first step to destroying the church. That's why I've converted 3 catholics to Orthodoxy and I haven't even been Chrismated yet. [/quote]
I'm sorry but Orthodoxy is bad example for what anyone should be like. God help us all if the world must rely on Orthodoxy to teach it about Christ.

[spathariossa]

[quote name='Balthazor' date='Dec 8 2004, 08:59 PM'] you are facetious a lot...I have seen your other posts [/quote]
It is my way I suppose. I hope you don't find it terribly offensive. Lemme know if you do. I'm not sure what I'll do about it but I'll bat it around the committee and we'll make some nonsense legislation that doesn't really fix anything.

[spathariossa]

[quote name='BLAZEr' date='Dec 8 2004, 09:08 PM'] I'm sorry but Orthodoxy is bad example for what anyone should be like. God help us all if the world must rely on Orthodoxy to teach it about Christ. [/quote]
And this is why of all the churches in my city, including numerous catholic ones, the Orthodox church is the only one that does homeless outreach. This is why the catholics focus on gloom and doom and the Orthodox focus on the mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ. This is why the Jesus Prayer is just recently becoming popular in Catholic churches whilst in Orthodoxy it has had primacy for centuries. Besides which, the Churches were the same for 1000 years. How could you even make a comment like that?

[BLAZEr]

[quote name='Aluigi' date='Dec 8 2004, 02:22 AM'] developing doctrine isn't changing doctrine. developing doctrine cannot contradict previous doctrine, only elaborate.

however, I can see how Blazer's statement in here about developing doctrine can confuse you as it seems to indicate that 180 degree turn around of a doctrine can constitute developement, which it certainly cannot.

you can't just throw out "dev of doct" on everything and make it alright. [/quote]
You said you understand Developent of Doctrine perfectly, but I'm not convinced. Development of doctrine is much more than just an "elaboration".

For example the Church used to allow priests to marry. Now it doesn't. Is this a contradiction? It sure would seem like one.


Now, Mr. Smarty Pants . . . if you will please explain how the Pope and Cardinal Ratzinger used the principle of the Development of Doctrine to show why the discipline of priestly celibacy should not be changed.

[Balthazor]

^ not particualrily, it is just I see a heck of a lot of people who leave the Catholic Church and then when I am talking to them I find out that they really did not know a whole lot about the Church that they left. That is what annoys me.

As for the facetious part, have you seen my posts? I go you been there, don';t worry about offending me. if you do I garuantee that I will get over it

But seriously this should be on the debate table, not open mic.
So if you want to open it up I would love to join you an Aluigi there.

[Balthazor]

[quote name='spathariossa' date='Dec 8 2004, 09:11 PM'] And this is why of all the churches in my city, including numerous catholic ones, the Orthodox church is the only one that does homeless outreach. This is why the catholics focus on gloom and doom and the Orthodox focus on the mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ. This is why the Jesus Prayer is just recently becoming popular in Catholic churches whilst in Orthodoxy it has had primacy for centuries. Besides which, the Churches were the same for 1000 years. How could you even make a comment like that? [/quote]
Maybe you aren't looking hard enough in those Catholic Churches in your city.

In the mean time I have a Norbertine friend that got several churches involved in outreach to the poor in Slovak Republic, and in building a school for Gypsy children.

Then there is Father Carr's place in the valley, which has not only a pantry but a place for kids to hang out too.

And then there is Paul's Pantry here in Green Bay.
Then there is the Catholic Campus Ministry here in Green Bay that is involved in Habitat for humanity.

I could go on but I think you get the idea, I don't know of all of the charities and outreach and program, but if you want a list. I can give you one, with adresses and contacts.

I don't see how this is focusing in on doom and gloom.
You see what you want and hear what you want.

[spathariossa]

[quote name='Balthazor' date='Dec 8 2004, 09:23 PM'] Maybe you aren't looking hard enough in those Catholic Churches in your city.

In the mean time I have a Norbertine friend that got several churches involved in outreach to the poor in Slovak Republic, and in building a school for Gypsy children.

Then there is Father Carr's place in the valley, which has not only a pantry but a place for kids to hang out too.

And then there is Paul's Pantry here in Green Bay.
Then there is the Catholic Campus Ministry here in Green Bay that is involved in Habitat for humanity.

I could go on but I think you get the idea, I don't know of all of the charities and outreach and program, but if you want a list. I can give you one, with adresses and contacts.

I don't see how this is focusing in on doom and gloom.
You see what you want and hear what you want. [/quote]
I'm not saying all catholic churches are this way. In my city the catholic churches I've been to do not focus on outreach to the very large homeless community. My church does. How is this an unchristian mode of behavior?

As far as the gloom and doom is concerned, you should compare your preparation for confession with an orthodox preparation for confession.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Dec 8 2004, 10:47 PM'] Sorry, I honestly didn't know that kneeling was required. Don't have to jump all over me.

If it's required then I don't understand why the heck people stand. I sure am not down with it.












Times like this I realize I should take a break from Phatmass. [/quote]
Dearie I am not yelling at YOU.

I am annoyed at all the people out there who do know kneeling is required, and have failed to pass that information on. :angry:

It is not your fault, if someone higher up has not down their job.

is for them.

[Balthazor]

I should you are right.
But you gotta remember I am not your average doomy-gloomy Catholic.


And I never said that ministering to the poor was un-Christian. I commend your church, I was just defending MY church.

Look at my post again...there wa absolutly nothing negative about the Orthodox church in there .....

[spathariossa]

[quote name='Balthazor' date='Dec 8 2004, 09:34 PM'] I should you are right.
But you gotta remember I am not your average doomy-gloomy Catholic.


And I never said that ministering to the poor was un-Christian. I commend your church, I was just defending MY church.

Look at my post again...there wa absolutly nothing negative about the Orthodox church in there ..... [/quote]
No but my response was not intended as an indictment against catholicism but rather a defense of Orthodoxy and the really blatantly false statement that Orthodoxy "is bad example(sic) for what anyone should be like"

[BLAZEr]

[quote name='spathariossa' date='Dec 8 2004, 09:11 PM'] And this is why of all the churches in my city, including numerous catholic ones, the Orthodox church is the only one that does homeless outreach. This is why the catholics focus on gloom and doom and the Orthodox focus on the mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ. This is why the Jesus Prayer is just recently becoming popular in Catholic churches whilst in Orthodoxy it has had primacy for centuries. Besides which, the Churches were the same for 1000 years. How could you even make a comment like that? [/quote]
What City do you live in, because I"m pretty sure that's either a lie or evidence of some ingorance . . .


Unless you live in Kiev.

[Guest Aluigi]

if i came off as a "smarty pants" it was only because i resented your condescending attitude to us all just because we support a practice the Church has had for 2000 years.

these are changes in discipline that you are referring to, and maybe i'm mistaken but developement of doctrine is different. developement of doctrine is elaboration regarding doctrines (teachings)

the discipline of priestly celibacy has a theological and doctrinal backing. the discipline could be changed, but it shouldn't be.

the earliest priests could be married in all the churches, roman and otherwise, but developement of doctrine showed how good it is for a priest to imitate Christ in a celibate life and devote all their energy to the church. that's an elaboration, not negating the possibility of married priests. based on that developement, the discipline was changed to require celibate priesthood. i don't know how the Pope and Cardinal Ratzinger explained it, but based on what I've seen from Newman and such developement of doctrine can only be elaboration, it cannot negate previous doctrines.

[spathariossa]

[quote name='BLAZEr' date='Dec 8 2004, 09:42 PM'] What City do you live in, because I"m pretty sure that's either a lie or evidence of some ingorance . . .


Unless you live in Kiev. [/quote]
Isla Vista. And it isn't a lie, nor is it evidence of ignorance. Both Orthodox and Catholic churches support transition house for Christmas presents but only the Orthodox church (and this includes protestants, jews, and catholics) actually feeds the homeless and outreaches to them. We even have psychiatric counselors come by to talk to them and put them in touch with county resources. But of course, I'm sure you know more about the tiny city I've lived in for 3 years than I do.

Edited December 9, 2004 by spathariossa

[drewmeister2]

[quote name='spathariossa' date='Dec 8 2004, 08:11 PM'] And this is why of all the churches in my city, including numerous catholic ones, the Orthodox church is the only one that does homeless outreach. This is why the catholics focus on gloom and doom and the Orthodox focus on the mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ. This is why the Jesus Prayer is just recently becoming popular in Catholic churches whilst in Orthodoxy it has had primacy for centuries. Besides which, the Churches were the same for 1000 years. How could you even make a comment like that? [/quote]
We have had the Rosary in the Catholic Church for a long time, though. I don't think you can generalize that the Catholic Church only focuses on gloom and doom. That isnt true at all. I know of many places here that help others. Maybe in your area it is true, but not in the whole Church. God bless!

[spathariossa]

[quote name='drewmeister2' date='Dec 8 2004, 10:07 PM'] We have had the Rosary in the Catholic Church for a long time, though. I don't think you can generalize that the Catholic Church only focuses on gloom and doom. That isnt true at all. I know of many places here that help others. Maybe in your area it is true, but not in the whole Church. God bless! [/quote]
Well don't rosaries have the "sorrowful" mysteries? Isn't it required to have stations of the cross in every catholic church? Isn't the pieta extremely popular? I know for certain that Catholicism focuses more on the passion than Orthodoxy does. A lot of you are saying "Well maybe the churches you have been to..." I've been to a dozen catholic churches or more in two states. Granted, that's not a wonderful survey of all that is Catholicism but you guys are the ones who are supposed to have a centralized, unifying authority figure. Where is that unity if all the individuals churches are so wildly disparate?