Neal4Christ Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 How would you define the phrase "intention to do as the Church does?" Unfortunately, there seems to be much confusion over its meaning, and it is a necessary requirement for things such as Baptism. Any documents regarding this phrase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal4Christ Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Maybe if you put this phrase in its context. Is it from the Baptismal Rite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal4Christ Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 From the CCC: [quote][b]...From the moment that a sacrament is celebrated in accordance with the intention of the Church, the power of Christ and his Spirit acts in and through it... -1128 ...The intention required is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes... -1256[/b][/quote] And this quote that was given to me that is from the Council of Trent: [quote][b]"Canon 11. If anyone says that in ministers, when they effect and confer the sacraments, there is not required at least the intention of doing what the Church does,[6] let him be anathema. (Cf., Council of Trent, Canons on the Sacraments in General, Canon xi)"[/b][/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I looked it up in "The Sources of Dogma," and it appears to simply mean the intention of conveying the sacrament, regardless of the worthiness of its minister. I'll come back with sources later. God bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 In that case i think it means that the minister is baptising a person as accepting them into the body of Christ and asking God to pour out his mercy and cleanse their soul from original sin. If it is the will of the church then they baptise as a commission to make disciples of all nations, follow Jesus, and do whatever Jesus tells you.(scriptural things. I don't remember the verses off hand.) Essentially it comes down to allowing you a share of Christ's mission as Priest, Prophet, and King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal4Christ Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 [quote name='theculturewarrior' date='Jan 19 2005, 08:57 PM'] I looked it up in "The Sources of Dogma," and it appears to simply mean the intention of conveying the sacrament, regardless of the worthiness of its minister. I'll come back with sources later. God bless! [/quote] Thanks. I would appreciate sources, if you get a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 A good place to start will be in the Summa (Tertia Pars, Question 66 through 71). It can be found here: [url="http://www.newadvent.org/summa/4.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/summa/4.htm[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal4Christ Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 Thank-you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal4Christ Posted January 20, 2005 Author Share Posted January 20, 2005 Anyone else? This is a critical phrase, but it seems it is very vague... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 I wouldn't agonize over it. I think it is a way of saying, "the minister must intend to convey the sacrament, but it is the Church that effects the sacrament, the minister is just the minister." Do you own Denzinger's The Sources of Catholic Dogma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal4Christ Posted January 21, 2005 Author Share Posted January 21, 2005 No, I don't own that one. Hmm...that may have to go on the wish list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Well...if you have access to a good theological library...you can check it out...just a sec...I'm coming with sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 [quote name='Neal4Christ' date='Jan 20 2005, 07:22 PM'] Anyone else? This is a critical phrase, but it seems it is very vague... [/quote] It's vague because the explicitness of the intention is not the same in each sacrament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theculturewarrior Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 In the systematic index of the Sources of Catholic Dogma, page 36, in the last paragraph, under the heading [The Sacraments] are accomplished with due matter and form, and under the subheading, "with the intention on the part of the minister of doing what the Church does," it lists paragraphs 672, 695, 854, 860, 1318, and 3004. I will list the sources these paragraphs are from in the following posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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