Kraft is a major sponsor of 2006 Gay Olympic Games

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='May 11 2005, 08:56 AM'] Zoe, you need to keep your Cool.

The black america pageant is a good point, and indeed I have thought of this. But you can't make someone black or not black. You're black, or you're not.

One's sexual orientation, however, and how that is determined, is still a subject of debate today.  Some say it's genetics, others say it's childhood events... how is that determined? What about bisexuals? Some people are pretty sure about their orientation -- there are people that will insist that they were born gay and have always known this. But this is not always the case with everyone. A lot of people feel confused for many years before knowing that they are gay or not. How would Anne Heche have fit into this scenario? She dated Ellen DeGeneres and was by all accounts, a lesbian. Or was she?  Now she's married to a man and has a kid. I went to the Games site and one's sexual orientation does not bar them from competing. So.... what is it exactly that they are promoting or celebrating?

Why can't we just keep sex out of sports? It should be about sports. Period. That includes not having inflammatory attacks on homosexuals in the general sports world. To do that shouldn't be tolerated -- if it was, then adulterers and "playas" should get the same treatment in "fairness."

If the gay community wants to have their own games, they have the freedom to do so. But saying that the Gay Games has nothing to do with the lifestyle itself is kind of like ignoring the big white elephant standing in the corner of the room. If religious people aren't comfortable supporting this, then it does not neccesarily mean they are being "judgmental" or condemning someone's soul. [/quote]
The question of whether one is born with homosexual tendancies or not is an interesting scientific question and should be persued in order for us to better understand it and help these people. But regardless of whether or not it is genetic, the Bible condemns it as disordered and so does the Church. We can be sure that it is. There is evidence that alcoholism and other disorders are passed on through genetics. So should we not help alcoholics? Should we let people with genetic forms of cancer die? There are physical diseases and spiritual diseases. We all actually have spiritual disease. It is called a corrupt nature and we are all born with it, so is there no sin?

I am heterosexual by genetics so should I be free to sleep with every woman that I am attracted to?

The genetic arguement is of no consequence. Homosexuality is disordered regardless. By the grace of Christ one can overcome this sin, even if it is genetic. His grace is more powerful than genetics.

Blessings

Edited May 11, 2005 by thessalonian

[Ash Wednesday]

Hi thess, this is true. What causes homosexual acts in the end has nothing to do with the licit nature of the acts. Wrong is wrong. I was questioning how this relates to comparing it with race -- like Norseman pointed out -- the two can't be compared since race isn't an inclination or behavioral matter.

[Zoecool13]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='May 11 2005, 09:59 AM'] They can get rid of discrimination by either not being gay or not acting on or publicizing their SSA. And diver Greg Louganis (sp?) won some gold medals in the Olympics (either 1984 or 1988) - and this was well before he came out of the closet, so I don't buy the argument that gay people cannot compete in the general society.




Being African-American or Hispanic-American or whatever ethnic group is not a behavior that one can control, whereas homosexual behavior is, so please don't compare sexual behavior with race. [/quote]
Greg swam before he came out of the closet... I completely agree that they can compete in the general society... Problem is, Society won't allow them once they know they are gay.

My point about the other pagents was not in comparison to one's sexuality. It was in response to the question, "Why do we even need a Gay Olympics?" In my opinion, a Gay Olympics is more of a necessity of a African-American Pageant. My 2nd point I was trying to make with that was the fact that no one has ever heard of a "European-American Pageant" If we are going to say that gays should just compete against other non-gays because they're good enough, then are we implying that people are beautiful based on the color of their skin?

[Zoecool13]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='May 11 2005, 09:50 AM'] Zoe, please dwell on this statement. That is what these "gay pride" type events are about, legitimatizing the lifestyle in the public eye, even if there is no overt immorality going on at the events.

I'll tell you what. How about if we organize a "pedophile olympics" or a "bestiality olympics" in Algonquin, IL? [/quote]
are you saying gays are as bad as pedophiles?

They partake in one ugly sin which is what makes them different from you and I. A sin is a sin...so when we all become perfect and not sin, so be it. Now the response will be they choose to continue their sin...I speed on the road... By not following the law of the land, I am sinning. I know i speed, i continue to speed, if you're in front of me going to slow, i will pass you up. Do you think less of me now? Do you not sin repeatedly at all?

Homosexuals have pre-marritial sex, with someone of their same gender. That's their sin. How many people have pre-maritial sex. They're no different.

As for a Gay olympics promoting the "gay lifestyle"... MTV promotes the "whore/player lifestyle" much more then a bunch of homosexuals partaking in sporting events... Why don't we start complaining about the supporters of MTV or get rid of all the CDs by Brittney or Christina or anyone else that has the image of being someone that is "easy".

If we battle one thing, we need to battle it all.

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

[quote name='Zoecool13' date='May 11 2005, 10:55 AM'] If we are going to say that gays should just compete against other non-gays because they're good enough, then are we implying that people are beautiful based on the color of their skin? [/quote]
What?

I think they're saying that sexual orientation should not be a basis for athletic competition. There is no reason why someone who is gay is prohibited from competing in the Olympics. I'm straight and if I want to compete in the Olympics, which is very unlikely, I have to compete against everyone else.

A homosexual Olympics is different from a black beauty pageant or a hypothetical white NBA. To say that a homosexual olympics won't have anything to do with homosexuality is like going to church and not expecting to hear about Jesus. Homosexual behavoir must be a central part of the gay games otherwise there would be no point to them. They wouldn't be able to ban me, a heterosexual. Besides, why shouldn't I be allowed to compete in the gay games. I'm just an NBK and Big V when it comes to the gay stuff.

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

[quote name='Zoecool13' date='May 11 2005, 11:07 AM'] If we battle one thing, we need to battle it all. [/quote]
I think you find that most of us do. I don't watch MTV or buy records from any of those artists (I don't even like most of them). Saying that since we don't always battle all immorality - there's too much at any time - it's okay for someone else to accept other immoral behavoir is at best rationalization and at worst hypocrisy.

[thessalonian]

Zoecool:

[quote]are you saying gays are as bad as pedophiles? [/quote]

It's not what we say:

1 Cor 6
9. Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

Now you could of course add pedophiles to this and the overlying implication is the unrepentent but it doesn't matter if a pedophile is worse or better than a homosexual. Eternity is a long time to spend in the lake of fire. Whitewashing sin isn't going to keep them from this fate.

Blessings

Edited May 11, 2005 by thessalonian

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote]If we battle one thing, we need to battle it all.[/quote]

Well said!


1337 k4th0l1x0r, What is a NBK and Big V?

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='May 11 2005, 12:20 PM']
Well said!


1337 k4th0l1x0r, What is a NBK and Big V? [/quote]
NBK = never been kissed
Big V = virgin

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='May 11 2005, 10:20 AM'] Hi thess, this is true. What causes homosexual acts in the end has nothing to do with the licit nature of the acts. Wrong is wrong. I was questioning how this relates to comparing it with race -- like Norseman pointed out -- the two can't be compared since race isn't an inclination or behavioral matter. [/quote]
No problem Ash. I've taken not of and enjoy your posts. I know your on the right side of the fence on this.

Peace.

[Azriel]

I didn't read the whole thread, but ya'll are playing nice, right?

[Ash Wednesday]

[Nicole8223]

[quote]They partake in one ugly sin which is what makes them different from you and I. A sin is a sin...so when we all become perfect and not sin, so be it. Now the response will be they choose to continue their sin...I speed on the road... By not following the law of the land, I am sinning. I know i speed, i continue to speed, if you're in front of me going to slow, i will pass you up. Do you think less of me now? Do you not sin repeatedly at all? [/quote]

Ah, exactly the point! We would not have a "speeder's olympics" because it is promoting something wrong. We wouldn't have a "People who had sex before marriage" olympics because it is wrong. SIN IS SIN IS SIN IS SIN.

We are desensitized to think that homosexuals are oppressed and we should let them just do their thing because they aren't hurting anyone! How sad!!!! We should never stand by and let immorality be promoted, and just say, well, it doesn't affect me...

I'm not saying we should all boycott Kraft or never eat an oreo again (it would be so cool if we did that, though), but we should recognize wrong as wrong, and not let Satan's lies creep into our thinking.

Love is not tolerating evil. Love is living rightly and proclaiming truth so we can share salvation.

[shelly_freak]

I was raised too liberal for all this carp! I understand it's kinda stupid they have their own olympics and all that but seriously, lets not waste our time arguing over something like this. We should be talking about Wal-Mart and Old Navy and Gap and Nike and the underpayed and child labor they support each and every day. The thousands of little children that are taken advantage of by huge American companies just so we can get cheap a$$ shirts and "save" the money we already have surplus of.

To tell you the truth who cares if a coagulated milk company supports gay olympics? Ever met a gay? They tend to be quite nice. (and please don't warp that and say I support gay sex)

[Nicole8223]

Shelly, I agree those are major issues too, but to say this isn't is ignoring the facts of what being a Catholic is.

I have met many gays, and have found them to be nice, too. No one is saying "gay people are mean." Just that the lifestyle that is being promoted is wrong...This is the type of stuff that has a huge affect on our country, on children, and on us. We do need to recognize something as wrong when it is so.