track2004 Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='May 11 2005, 03:13 PM'] "Stop saying the lifestyle is wrong... it isn't. Lifestyle is a broad and vague term, it covers everything they do in their life. The only thing that is wrong is the racism... Just say it. Don't call it anything else. Guess what, our children need to know about it... we can't seclude them from what racists are, unless we lock every racist person up. Whether right or wrong, racists aren't leaving any time soon and as Catholics, we need to accept that, and be nice to them, and find a way to co-exist with them. By banning a company because they have already learned to co-exist with racists is showing that as Catholics, we're just a bunch of little children. "get off my property" are words I remember hearing and saying to my neighbors when they did something I didn't like." [/quote] America is about letting them co-exist. The same laws that allow the KKK to opperate allows the Catholic Church to opperate. I hate that the KKK still exists but if we say 'no you can't be here we don't agree with you; you're wrong' then when does Protestant America come knocking on the Bishops' doors saying the same thing.... The only real thing you can do is to respectfully tell someone you disagree with them and if they don't respect that to tell them to get out of your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 [quote name='track2004' date='May 11 2005, 04:00 PM'] America is about letting them co-exist. The same laws that allow the KKK to opperate allows the Catholic Church to opperate. I hate that the KKK still exists but if we say 'no you can't be here we don't agree with you; you're wrong' then when does Protestant America come knocking on the Bishops' doors saying the same thing.... The only real thing you can do is to respectfully tell someone you disagree with them and if they don't respect that to tell them to get out of your life. [/quote] by this same reasong, abortion should be kept legal....its even law just like some feel its okay to be a racist, some feel that is right to kill unborn baby. if you can't stand for something, you will fall for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateri05 Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 amen little flower! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 [quote name='track2004' date='May 11 2005, 06:00 PM'] America is about letting them co-exist. The same laws that allow the KKK to opperate allows the Catholic Church to opperate. I hate that the KKK still exists but if we say 'no you can't be here we don't agree with you; you're wrong' then when does Protestant America come knocking on the Bishops' doors saying the same thing.... The only real thing you can do is to respectfully tell someone you disagree with them and if they don't respect that to tell them to get out of your life. [/quote] I disagree... we can do a lot more than that. We can push for morals in society... we can put pressure on companies like Kraft. We can stand up and defend the teachings of the Catholic Church instead of sitting idly by... we can educate people as to why the Church is right, win them for Christ and they too can help join the good fight. All for Christ. Live for Christ by living for Christ not saying we live for Christ and turning a blind eye to the evils of this world... we must denounce them. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 [quote]at worst they are pissing off God [/quote] Sigh. I guess for you that's not really all that worst a worst. Ever heard of eternal hellfire? Ever read your Bible. Do the words "no homosexual shall enter the kingdom of heaven" mean anything to you or are these inflamitory words that should be banded in our Rodney King society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 [quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='May 11 2005, 03:48 PM'] I was going to post that if some phatmassers feel that aspects of social justice, such as poverty, child labor, consumerism and other similar issues ought to be discussed, then you should create threads that provide information and discuss these things. There's plenty of room on the boards and I think there are people that would be interested, myself included. Discussing sexual morality need not be interpreted as ignoring other issues. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track2004 Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 [quote name='littleflower' date='JMJ+May 11 2005, 04:04 PM'] so you believe abortion should stay legal? by this you are saying abortion should be kept legal....its even law just like some feel its okay to be a racist, some feel that is right to kill unborn baby. if you can't stand for something, you will fall for everything. [/quote] I do stand for things, but that doesn't mean everyone has to stand for the same things I do, nor do I think I have the right or moral obligation to make them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1337 k4th0l1x0r Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Who on this board has defended the practices of Walmart? Who on this board has said homosexuality is the only problem facing the world? It is our right in capitalist America to say we're not going to buy any Kraft products just as you can say you don't want to shop at Walmart. That's the great thing about a boycott. It's one's own choice. You can complain all you want about it but the fact is that we're showing our disapproval of a lifestyle by closing our wallets to Kraft. The charges against Kraft are pretty obvious. They have their logo slapped right on the gay games. Go to another thread and put up accusations against walmart that have substance and we can discuss that there. This thread is about a large company supporting a lifestyle that is completely incompatible with Catholic teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateri05 Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 yes you do! didn't you hear the gospel last weekend! "go forth and make disciples of all nations!" not to mention "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one may come to the Father except through Me." and "noone who cries Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven" Eternal life = belief in Christ and His Church + following his commandments Hell = NOt doing the above. if we really LOVE these people, we have to help them know Christ. maybe you have no qualms casting people into the Pit, but i would kind of like ALL of God's creation to make it to the pearly gates. i guess thats just me tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track2004 Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 I know what the Gospel said last week. I try to do what it says and I don't think that just walking up to people and saying 'no you are wrong but I am right so listen to be or else there will be eternal hellfire' is the way to go. People do that on my campus every week and they aren't changing anyone's mind they are just polarizing people. Being a disciple is looking at one of my good friends and telling her that I disapprove of her relationship with her girlfriend; being a disciple is being able to have logical discussions with people who know you love them; being a disciple is looking at people with love and not judgements. On another note the concept we have now of sexuality didn't exist in Biblical times. Sex was about dominance and subordination. Male adult relations were frowned upon because one man became 'lesser' than the other. Homosexuality only really developed when Oscar Wilde (I think) was on trial for sodomy and the trail moved awat from the actual incident and into whether or not he was the 'type of person' who would commit sodomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 By the way track, You say they are only affecting themselves and maybe po-ing God. You are wrong. (I know that is a strong word). Just as Adam's sin affected all of mankind so do our individual sins. They also effect our children. The scriptures tell us that the man who does wrong effects his offspring of 4 generations. Oh I suppose you could say, gays don't have offspring, but the fact is there are still effects for the whole of society. When Israel went in to the promised land and had one their first battle, one man was found with some spoils from the battle against the command of God. God not only punished him (with death) but also all of Israel. Every man's sin effects the rest of society. Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateri05 Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 <<Being a disciple is looking at one of my good friends and telling her that I disapprove of her relationship with her girlfriend; being a disciple is being able to have logical discussions with people who know you love them; being a disciple is looking at people with love and not judgements. >> noone is saying that isn't be a good disciple. and noone is saying "admonish the sinner and make sure to do it in a nasty way to make them feel like carp" of course we are called always to act with charity in all things. but you do people much more harm when you just let them do what they think is right if its NOt right because their soul is worth any alienation that may happen. that doesn't mean alienate people on purpose by being unkind and uncharitable but it does mean having the courtesy, as their brother or sister in Christ, to tell them the full, unvarnished Truth because in the end, its better for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateri05 Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 oh and homosexuality isn't wrong because of some different worldview on sexuality, its wrong because it is contrary to God's divine and mystical plan for how the reality of our bodies and sexuality image His Divine Love in the Trinity. Scripture is the Inspired Word of God and is as true now as it was then. how do we know? cuz the Magisterium tells us so Read Chris West, he'll tell ya ALL about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 [quote]being a disciple is looking at people with love and not judgements.[/quote] This is simply false. The Apostle Paul chastised the whole Corinthian Church in 1 Cor 5 for not judging rightly a man who was living with his father's wife, evidently in an illicit way. He says that the man must be judged and says "I hand his body over to satan so that his soul might be saved". It is for the man's good and his salvation that Paul judged his actions and chastized the community for not doing so. Was Paul not a disciple? 1 Cor 6 chastises the whole community for their inability to judge rightly. Read them. We are to judge behavior, i.e. whether it is right or wrong. Read your Bible. Your just speaking off the top of your head with no real understanding. The idea that we have a different understanding of homosexuality so it is somehow okay now is very bad. You are on a slippery slope when you have started undermining scripture in this manner. Very slippery. Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted May 12, 2005 Author Share Posted May 12, 2005 [quote name='track2004' date='May 11 2005, 06:10 PM'] I do stand for things, but that doesn't mean everyone has to stand for the same things I do, nor do I think I have the right or moral obligation to make them. [/quote] You contradict yourself by arguing this point at all. Obviously you do want to push your beliefs on others or you would not be arguing. We do not have a right push what we personally believe... but the Catholic Church has the right, and authority given to it by God to teach the truth. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now