Mormon Pepsi Challenge PartII

[jswranch]

As my Mormon buddy and I continue to negotiate for his promise to be Catholic if I do not believe the TBM to be inspired after reading it and praying, we are about to settle on an agreement. (We tried to negotiate some terms because I did not want to waste my time reading the 531 page book only to have him deny that I prayed or listened to my heart etc. which bings us back to square one.)

I need you guys to give me some good arguments on why a warm fuzzy feeling does not equal truth. He believes the LDS party line of 'if you feel the peace, joy and comfort,' you know you are receiving the spirit of truth.' I am looking for some layman philosophy 101 or some other answer to the question of 'what is truth?' I already have all the other historical, anthropological, literary arguments against LDS. I agree the Holy Spirit does lead us from time to time by the feeling in our hearts. But weighing of truth in this manner is pushing the limit.

Here is his latest email:
[quote]Moroni (a prophet from America cerca 400 A.D.) promises that if you read the Book of Mormon (I know that Moroni was referring to the Book of Mormon as a whole because he and Mormon, his father, are the only ones that actually had the Book of Mormon (Mormon compiled the writings of 1000 years of prophets (hence the name "Book of Mormon"- the book that Mormon compiled)). He gave the writings to Moroni, who was then commanded to write a little himself and to bury the writings), and you have faith in Christ, and you are sincere about knowing if the Book is true, when you ask God, He will confirm to you that it is true by the power of the Holy Ghost. I don't recall the first time that I recognized the Holy Ghost confirming to me that the Book of Mormon is true. But I have always felt good (peace, love, joy) when reading and pondering on its teachings. I admit that I have had doubts due to the greatness of the significance of what the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon implies (Joseph Smith was a true prophet, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was established by Christ Himself through His servants, and is still directed by Him to this day, and that God lives and Jesus is the Christ), so I recall trying the Savior's promise (through Moroni), that you know of from Moroni 10:3-5, many times (every time I have doubted). Every time I have doubted, I have felt empty, faithless and hopeless. Every time I believe, I feel peace, comfort, loved, loving, desires to be more like Christ. I feel closer to Him, and gain a truer understanding of Him every time I read. So it is safe to say that I have had thousands of confirmations that it is true, that God lives, that Jesus is the Christ, that Joseph Smith was truly a prophet of God, and whenever he acted or spoke in the name of God, it was the Lord, not Joseph, that was communicating to man; and that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is directed by God, not men, on the earth today. Once you know these truths, you always come back to them if ever you are tempted to doubt. You receive a new witness from the Holy Ghost that they are true. Everything else becomes details that you will understand fully in the Lord's time (and as you go through life, you find that many things are revealed to you, often when you least expect it). You just have to keep moving in the right direction. I value your opinion, John, and I am open to accepting the truth, regardless of what it may be. I do not count my current understanding as perfect, and I fully expect to learn things that I never would have imagined could be true, when I am ready. I want your honest opinion in this matter, as it is the most important in life. I will Covenants 50:21-22: "...he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of Truth. Wherefore, he that preacheth and he that receiveth, understand one another, and both are edified and rejoice together." When you tell me your answer, you and I will both feel it, by the Holy Ghost. We will know that the other knows it, too. We will rejoice in knowing that we both know it. Our next action will be obvious.. What do you think?[/quote]

I do not hold the doubt against him or his faith as most our great saints have experienced the same at some point. Actually, I find his faith deep in what he believes to be true.

[ironmonk]

Have you read the Catholic.com links that I posted on the other thread yet?

God Bless,
ironmonk

[jswranch]

Yes I did. My favorite was the one on double think and the black hole mentality.

Thank You.

[ironmonk]

[quote]I need you guys to give me some good arguments on why a warm fuzzy feeling does not equal truth. He believes the LDS party line of 'if you feel the peace, joy and comfort,' you know you are receiving the spirit of truth.' [/quote]

If that was true, then Muslims would have the truth. Buddists would have the truth. Atheists would have the truth. etc....

We are told in the Scriptures that our heart can deceive us.

Obadiah 3
The pride of your heart has deceived you

[quote]I am looking for some layman philosophy 101 or some other answer to the question of 'what is truth?' [/quote]

Truth cannot contradict truth. 2+2 will always be 4... 2+3 will never be 4. Truth is what is real and factual... not opinion.


Mormanism claims that God took away the true church sometime in the 3rd century. Use the Early Church Fathers writings before the 3rd Century... they were all Catholic.

Also, Christ said the Church would never be overcome, and that the Church would be like a city on a mountain for all to see... Mormanism contradicts Scripture...

[b]Matt 5:13 [/b]
"[color=red]You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. [/color]
[b]14 [/b] [color=red]You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden. [/color]
[b]15[/b] [color=red] Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house. [/color]

[b]St. Matt 16:18 [/b] "[color=red]And so I say to you, you are Peter (Kephas), and upon this rock (Kephas) I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.[/color]"
[b]19 [/b][color=red]I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.[/color]"

Jesus is speaking directly to Peter here, this english version has been translated 3 times... Originally in Aramaic (Kephas = rock)... Then the Greek were we get the different endings of 'Petros', one is masculine and one is feminine... following proper grammer they could not give Peter the feminine and that is why there is a differnence in the Greek to English... An Aramaic to English would read [color=red]"...you are Rock, and upon this Rock I will build my church...[/color]"

Peter's name in Aramaic was Kephas as shown in John's Gospel and in Paul's letter to the Cornithians. Aramic is what was spoken and it means Rock.


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[b]John 1:42 [/b]
Then he brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, "You are Simon the son of John; you will be called Kephas" (which is translated Peter).

The argument that Jesus was not calling Peter the Rock is wrong.


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[b]John 21:15[/b]
When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "[color=red]Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?[/color]" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "[color=red]Feed my lambs[/color]."
[b]16 [/b]He then said to him a second time, "[color=red]Simon, son of John, do you love me?[/color]" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "[color=red]Tend my sheep[/color]."
[b]17 [/b]He said to him the third time, "[color=red]Simon, son of John, do you love me?[/color]" Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." (Jesus) said to him, "[color=red]Feed my sheep[/color]."

This also shows the same as with St. Matt 16:18 that Peter was the leader of the Apostles after Jesus went to Heaven. Peter was the first Pope.


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[b]St. Matt 28:18[/b]
Then Jesus approached and said to them, "[color=red]All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. [/color]
[b]19 [/b][color=red]Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, [/color]
[b]20 [/b][color=red]teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age[/color]."

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[b]Acts 20:29[/b]
I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock.
[b]30 [/b]And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them.

[b]2 Peter 3:15 [/b]
And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you,
[b]16 [/b]speaking of these things 12 as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.
[b]17 [/b]Therefore, beloved, since you are forewarned, be on your guard not to be led into the error of the unprincipled and to fall from your own stability.



We see that the True Church:
- Would have been lead by Peter after Christ went to Heaven.
- Will like a city on a mountain which cannot be hidden, which means it will never be out of sight
- Will be lead by Christ until the end of time
- Peter will have the keys to Heaven (sign of authority)
- The Church will never be overcome
- The Church will be made up of disciples of nations
- All who leave the original are wrong to do so and do so to their own destruction





Miracles such as Fatima with it's over 70,000 witnesses and Saint Pio (aka Padre Pio) and his thousands of witnesses and the massive amounts of scrutiny coupled with the above verses and history prove what is truth.


Then just using common sense destroys mormonism... if God took the true Church away from the world in the 3rd Century:
- then how do we have the bible today?
- then why can't they show the specific year and a contradiction between the writings before that year and the writings after that year
- When we look at the earliest Christian writings, [url="http://www.NewAdvent.org/Fathers"]http://www.NewAdvent.org/Fathers[/url] from the first century until today we specifically see the Seven Sacraments of the Catholic Church, we see the Pope, we teachings of the Catholic Church, we see an unbroken line of succession from Peter to Pope Benedict XVI.
- How do we have the bible that was put together in 400 AD by the Catholic Church and protected by the Catholic Church for the past 1600 years, if the Catholic Church was not the True Church.



God Bless,
ironmonk