Who won?

[musturde]

I love how America and Israel claimed victory for this war. Israel didn't achieve anything. Hezbollah hasn't agreed to disarm their weapons, they are still a terrorist group, and the only thing achieved was practically destruction and civilian deaths. The more time that passes, the stronger Hezbollah gets. If Israel actually had intelligence, they would have taken out Hezbollah by now. They were not justified in going into Lebanon and bombing the whole country. They didn't have a strong enough plan. Also, they killed mostly civilians. How much damage did they do to Hezbollah? Definitely not as much as they did to Lebanon as a whole. Israel put the government at a position of almost collapsing. Had that have happened, who would have taken control? Hezbollah. One of Israels aims was to get the Lebanese people to side with them. How did they do this? They dropped leaflets with propoganda against Hezbollah. They tried to win peoples hearts and get people to hate Hezbollah. What ended up happening? More people hate Israel. Israel played a stupid game in this war. Once they knew the international community wasn't stopping them, they went crazy bombing as much as they could before it was too late. When Hezbollah fought back, it drove them nuts.

I also love how Hezbollah claimed victory over the many dead in this war. They started this war and continued it even with the amount of people dying. Now they refuse to give up their weapons. They would be thrilled if the government collapsed so that they could take over. This would mean Lebanon would be ruled by the laws of Islam. However, this would not be a good thing for the Sunnis in Lebanon who despise Hezbollah (both the extremists and nonextremists). The truth is Stephen, whose been posting endlessly about Israel, made one point that I happen to agree with. Western media does not portray the events in Lebanon or most of the Middle East in a clear view. The supposed "experts" talking about the situation are a lot of times idiots and America is only getting a very very small taste of the complications of what's going on there. Even many Lebanese people are blinded. The American media portrays that someone against Israel in Lebanon is supporting Hezbollah or that someone against Hezbollah is supporting Israel. It's as if there can't be both. It's almost the same in Lebanon. With political groups like the Aounists (who are Christian and usually hate Hezbollah), they only support Hezbollah because their leader supports him. They think they would be siding with the political group(s) against their leader if they side against Hezbollah. They don't think they can be against both. The many political groups in Lebanon have to be taken into consideration when looking at the war. I believe most people in America don't even know there are two *main*(there are some others as well) Christian parties in Lebanon. They also don't realize that the Sunni and the Shi'ite HATE eachother. It's easier for a Sunni to fight alongside a Christian against a Shi'ite then to fight with a Shi'ite. This is why Osama Bin Laden was rejected when he offered to join forces with Hezbollah. He made some bs about the towers in Lebanon falling during the Civil war (Lebanon didn't even have towers). He made this up in order to persuade the Shi'ite but that obviously didn't work. Then there's the Druze who no one really hears of. They're a religious group and follow a political leader of their religious group. They're allied with the Sunnis(Future Movement Party Led by the son of the assasinated Rafik Hariri) and the Lebanese Forces (Christian Party). Then there's the Syrian Socialist Party (which I believe was made by a Christian but has practically no respect from most Christians in Lebanon... they used to have a lot of power when Syria was in), the Aounis (Christian party who got many seats in the parliament, allied with Hezbollah), Hezbollah, and soo much more. I wrote this all down for the sake of showing some of the main political groups in Lebanon and how they're differing views could effect people's views in Lebanon, the actions taken, how the conflict could have/can errupt into a Civil War. If I was to explain more about each group, it'd take a couple of days. Let's get to the main point though...


Who really was victorious though? If anything, a guerilla group facing the nation of Israel and doing this good doesn't look good for Israel at all. It also doesn't look good for Lebanon. The only way to disarm Hezbollah is if the Lebanese government declares war on Hezbollah (which will be considered a Civil War). I don't even know how much good that would do.

Edited August 17, 2006 by musturde

[Era Might]

[quote]War is always a defeat for humanity.

--Pope John Paul II[/quote]

[KnightofChrist]

Peace peace but there will be no peace.

-Jesus Christ

[Era Might]

[quote]I bless peace, not war.

--Pope Benedict XV[/quote]

[MC Just]

"I come not to bring peace, but the sword"

-Jesus Christ

[Era Might]

[quote]Blessed are the peacemakers

--Eternal Son of God[/quote]
[quote]For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.

--St. Paul[/quote]
[quote]Injustice, excessive economic or social inequalities, envy, distrust, and pride raging among men and nations constantly threaten peace and cause wars. Everything done to overcome these disorders contributes to building up peace and avoiding war.

--Catechism of the Catholic Church[/quote]

[quote]"NO TO WAR"! War is not always inevitable. It is always a defeat for humanity. International law, honest dialogue, solidarity between States, the noble exercise of diplomacy: these are methods worthy of individuals and nations in resolving their differences. I say this as I think of those who still place their trust in nuclear weapons and of the all-too-numerous conflicts which continue to hold hostage our brothers and sisters in humanity. At Christmas, Bethlehem reminded us of the unresolved crisis in the Middle East, where two peoples, Israeli and Palestinian, are called to live side-by-side, equally free and sovereign, in mutual respect. Without needing to repeat what I said to you last year on this occasion, I will simply add today, faced with the constant degeneration of the crisis in the Middle East, that the solution will never be imposed by recourse to terrorism or armed conflict, as if military victories could be the solution. And what are we to say of the threat of a war which could strike the people of Iraq, the land of the Prophets, a people already sorely tried by more than twelve years of embargo? War is never just another means that one can choose to employ for settling differences between nations. As the Charter of the United Nations Organization and international law itself remind us, war cannot be decided upon, even when it is a matter of ensuring the common good, except as the very last option and in accordance with very strict conditions, without ignoring the consequences for the civilian population both during and after the military operations.

--Pope John Paul II[/quote]

[musturde]

[quote name='musturde' post='1045595' date='Aug 17 2006, 04:25 PM']
He made some bs about the towers in Lebanon falling during the Civil war (Lebanon didn't even have towers). He made this up in order to persuade the Shi'ite but that obviously didn't work.
[/quote]

Sorry for not making this clear. Let me clarify, Osama bin Laden said he was inspired to do the 9/11 attack because of seeing "the towers of Lebanon" collapse during the Civil War.

[Franimus]

were they really Hezbollah disguised as civilians?

[DAF]

[quote]Who won?[/quote]
We did.

Gen. 19:24-25. God knew when it was time to take care of business, why don't we?

Edited August 18, 2006 by DAF

[cappie]

Maronite bishops express concern over UN resolution’s ambiguity vis-à-vis Hezbollah
by Youssef Hourany
Prelates fear a “dual political authority”. They express thanks to cardinals Etchegaray and McCarrick.

Beirut (AsiaNews) – The Assembly of Maronite Bishops has publicly stated that UN resolution 1701 runs the risk of being interpreted in too ambiguous a fashion leaving Hezbollah a free hand. Although the Shia militia is never mentioned in the press release, the bishops, who have been meeting since yesterday, said that the Lebanese are still very “weary” about how the UN resolution will be interpreted. They fear that the country will come under a “dual political authority” and urge the entire population to join forces under the sole authority “of the government which enjoys the confidence of the democratically-elected parliament”.

In a statement to the press released yesterday they said that the “drama the Lebanese endured during this month-long war taught them that decisions cannot be made by a dual political authority. If we do not want to lose accountability and want to prevent catastrophes from striking the country, only one authority should decide and that is the government which enjoys the confidence of the democratically-elected house”.

Despite the government’s hesitations and procrastination, a robust debate is underway in the country over the means to implement the UN resolution, in particular Hezbollah’s disarmament.

Under the terms of the accords reached in Taif and UN resolutions, all militias must be disarmed. So far the Lebanese government—deeply divided over the issue—has failed to do so.

Resolution 1701 requires that only the regular Lebanese army can bear arms in the south, but Hezbollah is interpreting the requirement as being limited to “visible arms”, thus maintaining its stockpiles of weapons in caches in anticipation of new wars.

In an interview to German magazine Del Spiegel, the Maronite Patriarch, Cardinal Sfeir, has expressed fears over Hezbollah’s power. Their power, the cardinal said, is “something we cannot accept after the war.” As soon as Israel pulls out and the prisoners’ exchange takes place, “Hezbollah no longer has a right to maintain its army”.

In their press release, the Maronite bishops also expressed their gratitude towards Cardinal Etchegaray, papal envoy to Lebanon. “This [the cardinal’s] visit,” they write, “is a balm to our hearts. For our greater consolation, the Holy Father wished to accompany it with financial aid that was sent via Caritas Lebanon to be distributed according to the needs”.

The bishops also thanked Cardinal McCarrick for his visit and the US Bishops’ Conference for its solidarity.

[Eutychus]

God won.

He always does. Everything was written beforehand.

So?

Things do NOT get better, but worse, and worse, with Damascus nuked, and Magog and Gog coming against Israel.

All this was was part of the "birthpangs" call it false labor.

Everyone, the Jews, the Arabs, the Palestinians are just chess pieces being moved around by God.

End times checklist { pentecostal/evangelical version}

[quote]Prophetic Events

The Bible contains a great amount of unfulfilled prophecy. Much of it deals with God's redemptive plan for Israel in the period in which we now live. The following interpretations are proposed for your prayerful consideration, not as dogma. Search the Scriptures yourself with the direction of the Holy Spirit.

1. The coastal population centers of Israel, as well as the Golan Heights, will be hit badly by some kind of enemy attack, presumably from Hezbollah and Syria. (Isaiah 33) In response, Damascus, and perhaps Amman will be wiped out. (Isaiah 17, Jeremiah 49, Zechariah 9)


2. The Palestinians will "melt away" from Judea and Samaria in a time of war, leaving it open for Jewish resettlement in a large scale. (Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 35-36)


3. The east bank of the Jordan River in what is today Jordan will be reclaimed by Israel, with many refugees fleeing the area. (Jeremiah 48-49, Isaiah 15-16)

4. South Lebanon will be also taken by Israel, presumably in the same war, opening it up for Jews around the world to settle in when they make aliyah. { return to the land of Israel } (Zechariah 10:10-11:1)


5. The United States will suffer a great calamity just as the Middle East "peace process" is about to come to fruition.
Is Isaiah 18 about the United States? [/quote]

Please download and listen to this one, I have dozens of these, and this is the best by far.

[url="http://www.trumpetsounds.com/lebanoninprophecy.wma"]http://www.trumpetsounds.com/lebanoninprophecy.wma[/url]

Edited August 18, 2006 by Eutychus

[KnightofChrist]

There can be no peace with an evil enemy that swears they "worship death" while we worship Christ who is Life. This is a Holy War, a war we must win, if we see so or not, delcaring peace when there is no peace will only bring us death, and the destruction of the Christian faith.

The will be and can be no peace in the eyes of Islamic terrorist untill every Jew, Christian, and non-lslamic peoples are converted or dead.

Peace peace but there will be no Peace.

[musturde]

[quote name='DAF' post='1045703' date='Aug 17 2006, 06:52 PM']
We did.

Gen. 19:24-25. God knew when it was time to take care of business, why don't we?
[/quote]

Hehe, honestly, I highly highly doubt the current situation is related to this. They didn't actually accomplish anything.

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1045710' date='Aug 17 2006, 07:04 PM']
God won.

He always does. Everything was written beforehand.

So?

Things do NOT get better, but worse, and worse, with Damascus nuked, and Magog and Gog coming against Israel.

All this was was part of the "birthpangs" call it false labor.

Everyone, the Jews, the Arabs, the Palestinians are just chess pieces being moved around by God.

End times checklist { pentecostal/evangelical version}
Please download and listen to this one, I have dozens of these, and this is the best by far.

[url="http://www.trumpetsounds.com/lebanoninprophecy.wma"]http://www.trumpetsounds.com/lebanoninprophecy.wma[/url]
[/quote]

The man who's talking doesn't know what he's talking about. I stopped taking him seriously after i heard him say Syria was occupying Lebanon. I'm confused by this. He keeps saying Syria controls Lebanon. This isn't true anymore. He also uses the Bible out of Context. They could have used the same exact passages in the Civil War.

Edited August 18, 2006 by musturde

[musturde]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1045742' date='Aug 17 2006, 08:04 PM']
There can be no peace with an evil enemy that swears they "worship death" while we worship Christ who is Life. This is a Holy War, a war we must win, if we see so or not, delcaring peace when there is no peace will only bring us death, and the destruction of the Christian faith.
[/quote]

I agree with disarming Hezbollah. Israel's tactics were a bit dumb though. Think about it, we're talking about Israel. Did you see what they did? It wasn't justified nor did it serve any purpose. In fact, it put Christians lives on the line and it killed mostly innocent people. What if the government had collapsed (which it could have very easily during that time)? That would have been much worse for the Christians than the current situation was.

Edited August 18, 2006 by musturde