St. Benedict quote needed

[jswranch]

I need a few quotes by St. Benedict to show his views on the necessity of obediance to the Pope and his support of Marian doctrines, especially immaculate conception and mediatrix etc.

[thessalonian]

He has a book on Mary. Unfortunately I haven't bought it yet.


[url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/158617018X"]http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/158617018X[/url]

This might be of some help.

[url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20040731_collaboration_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congrega...oration_en.html[/url]
[url="http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/ratzinger_hailgrace_dec05.asp"]http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features200...grace_dec05.asp[/url]

Also

First point: "When one recognizes the place assigned to Mary by dogma and tradition, one is solidly rooted in authentic christology. (According to Vatican II: 'Devoutly meditating on her and contemplating her in the light of the Word made man, the Church reverently penetrates more deeply into the great mystery of the Incarnation and becomes more and more like her spouse,' Lumen Gentium, no. 65). It is, moreover in direct service to faith in Christ—not, therefore, primarily out of devotion to the Mother—that the Church has proclaimed her Marian dogmas: first that of her perpetual virginity and divine motherhood and then, after a long period of maturation and reflection, those of her Immaculate Conception and bodily Assumption into heavenly glory. These dogmas protect the original faith in Christ as true God and true man: two natures in a single Person. They also secure the indispensable eschatological tension by pointing to Mary's Assumption as the immortal destiny that awaits us all. And they also protect the faith—threatened today—in God the Creator, who (and this, among other things, is the meaning of the truth of the perpetual virginity of Mary, more than ever not understood today) can freely intervene also in matter. Finally, Mary, as the Council recalls: 'having entered deeply into the history of salvation, ... in a way unites in her person and reechoes the most important mysteries of the Faith'" (Lumen Gentium, no. 65).



This first point is followed by a second: "The mariology of the Church comprises the right relationship, the necessary integration between Scripture and tradition. The four Marian dogmas have their clear foundation in sacred Scripture. But it is there like a seed that grows and bears fruit in the life of tradition just as it finds expression in the liturgy, in the perception of the believing people and in the reflection of theology guided by the Magisterium."



Third point: "In her very person as a Jewish girl become the mother of the Messiah, Mary binds together, in a living and indissoluble way, the old and the new People of God, Israel and Christianity, synagogue and church. She is, as it were, the connecting link without which the Faith (as is happening today) runs the risk of losing its balance by either forsaking the New Testament for the Old or dispensing with the Old. In her, instead, we can live the unity of sacred Scripture in its entirety."



Fourth point: "The correct Marian devotion guarantees to faith the coexistence of indispensable 'reason' with the equally indispensable 'reasons of the heart,' as Pascal would say. For the Church, man is neither mere reason nor mere feeling, he is the unity of these two dimensions. The head must reflect with lucidity, but the heart must be able to feel warmth: devotion to Mary (which 'avoids every false exaggeration on the one hand, and excessive narrow-mindedness in the contemplation of the surpassing dignity of the Mother of God on the other,' as the Council urges) thus assures the faith its full human dimension."



Continuing his synthesis, Ratzinger lists a fifth point: "To use the very formulations of Vatican II, Mary is 'figure,' 'image' and 'model' of the Church. Beholding her the Church is shielded against the aforementioned masculinized model that views her as an instrument for a program of social-political action. In Mary, as figure and archetype, the Church again finds her own visage as Mother and cannot degenerate into the complexity of a party, an organization or a pressure group in the service of human interests, even the noblest. If Mary no longer finds a place in many theologies and ecclesiologies, the reason is obvious: they have reduced faith to an abstraction. And an abstraction does not need a Mother."



Here is the sixth and last point of this synthesis: "With her destiny, which is at one and the same time that of Virgin and of Mother, Mary continues to project a light upon that which the Creator intended for women in every age, ours included, or, better said, perhaps precisely in our time, in which—as we know—the very essence of femininity is threatened. Through her virginity and her motherhood, the mystery of woman receives a very lofty destiny from which she cannot be torn away. Mary undauntedly proclaims the Magnificat, but she is also the one who renders silence and seclusion fruitful. She is the one who does not fear to stand under the Cross, who is present at the birth of the Church. But she is also the one who, as the evangelist emphasizes more than once, 'keeps and ponders in her heart' that which transpires around her. As a creature of courage and of obedience she was and is still an example to which every Christian—man and woman—can and should look."


[url="http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/591/Don_t_Forget_Mary___Cardinal_Ratziner__Pope_Benedict_XVI_.html"]http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/librar...edict_XVI_.html[/url]

[puellapaschalis]

[quote name='jswranch' post='1047040' date='Aug 21 2006, 04:50 AM']
I need a few quotes by St. Benedict to show his views on the necessity of obediance to the Pope and his support of Marian doctrines, especially immaculate conception and mediatrix etc.
[/quote]

Do you mean Pope Benedict (XVI?), or St. Benedict? The only writings of the latter that are still extant is his Rule for Monks, which deals exclusively with the runnings of a monastery and monastic life.

Love and prayers,

PP

[jswranch]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1047445' date='Aug 21 2006, 01:57 PM']
Do you mean Pope Benedict (XVI?), or St. Benedict? The only writings of the latter that are still extant is his Rule for Monks, which deals exclusively with the runnings of a monastery and monastic life.

Love and prayers,

PP
[/quote]
St. Benedict

[Laudate_Dominum]

St. Benedict of Nursia (Norcia in Umbria) didn't exactly leave behind a library of works. I doubt the rule will be very helpful since it's a rule of monastic life, not a theological or catechetical treatise.

Your best bet might be to sift through accounts of the life of St. Benedict from near to his own lifetime. These would be contemporaneous sources of information about the life, practices and beliefs of St. Benedict. You may even find useful quotes that the authors attribute to Benedict himself. This is probably as close as you can get.

[puellapaschalis]

You might also try reading St. Benedict's "biography" - Book 2 of the Dialogues of St. Gregory the Great, in which St. Gregory and Peter discuss St. Benedict's life.

Having said that, I read it myself not long ago, and I don't recall much if anything in there about the topics you speak of.

As to his Rule itself, I can't claim to know it in any detail, but I believe Our Lady isn't even mentioned. He has a whole chapter (five) about Obedience, but it's focused on the relationship between the Abbot and the rest of the community and how this models the individual's relationship with Christ. He mentions local (non-monastic) Christians and bishops in relation to the procedures for Abbatial elections.

Love and prayers,

PP

ETA: I've just had a random thought: of course I don't know why you asked for a St. Benedict quote, so this might not be suitable for you. However, the Cistercians (a "branch" of the Benedictines) traditionally have a strong devotion to Our Lady. Perhaps checking out some writings of St. Bernard might yield something fruitful?

Edited August 22, 2006 by puellapaschalis

[thessalonian]

I see I already have him canonized. Bit premature. : Sorry. Carry on.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1047746' date='Aug 21 2006, 10:06 PM']
You might also try reading St. Benedict's "biography" - Book 2 of the Dialogues of St. Gregory the Great, in which St. Gregory and Peter discuss St. Benedict's life.

Having said that, I read it myself not long ago, and I don't recall much if anything in there about the topics you speak of.

As to his Rule itself, I can't claim to know it in any detail, but I believe Our Lady isn't even mentioned. He has a whole chapter (five) about Obedience, but it's focused on the relationship between the Abbot and the rest of the community and how this models the individual's relationship with Christ. He mentions local (non-monastic) Christians and bishops in relation to the procedures for Abbatial elections.

Love and prayers,

PP

ETA: I've just had a random thought: of course I don't know why you asked for a St. Benedict quote, so this might not be suitable for you. However, the Cistercians (a "branch" of the Benedictines) traditionally have a strong devotion to Our Lady. Perhaps checking out some writings of St. Bernard might yield something fruitful?
[/quote]
ditto

[jswranch]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1047746' date='Aug 21 2006, 10:06 PM']
ETA: I've just had a random thought: of course I don't know why you asked for a St. Benedict quote, so this might not be suitable for you. However, the Cistercians (a "branch" of the Benedictines) traditionally have a strong devotion to Our Lady. Perhaps checking out some writings of St. Bernard might yield something fruitful?
[/quote]

My dad, Episcopal Priest, is a huge fan of St. Benedict, but not a fan of Immaculate Conception or Papal primacy. If I can show him a contradiction, it may help our diologue.

[puellapaschalis]

[quote name='jswranch' post='1048537' date='Aug 23 2006, 06:15 AM']
My dad, Episcopal Priest, is a huge fan of St. Benedict, but not a fan of Immaculate Conception or Papal primacy. If I can show him a contradiction, it may help our diologue.
[/quote]

Ah, I see. St. Benedict is very popular with many non-Catholics, and perhaps this is (at least partially) because he's seen as a "non-divisive" figure who doesn't talk about doctrines as such. Combine that (negative?) reason with the positive one that his Rule simply rocks (I'm a Benedictine Oblate so yes, I am biased) and the attraction can be very strong.

However, I personally don't believe that Benedict can be successfully "applied" outside of a Catholic context, or at the very least a context that ultimately draws people to Catholicism. The sixth century saw not only secular upheavals but also theological ones; this was the backdrop against which the Rule was written. The restoration of order seems to have been a major theme in many aspects of life.

As an example (and this is also the place where the bishop is mentioned in the Rule):
[quote]... May God forbid that a whole community should conspire to elect a man who goes along with it own evil ways. But if it does, and if the bishop of the diocese or the abbots or Christians in the are come to know of these evil ways to any extent, they must block the success of this wicked conspiracy, and set a worthy steward in charge of God's house.

Chapter 64, 3 - 5.[/quote]

One of the theological issues of the time, which St. Benedict may or may not have been aware of, was Pelagianism. To perhaps a lesser extent Arianism was swirling about too. But following from what I mentioned above, I'm personally quite certain that St. Benedict [i]does[/i] want us all to be obedient to our bishops, especially the Pope, and to honour Our Lady as Our Lord did.

Whilst you might not be able to invoke his writings in your conversations with your father, entreating St. Benedict for prayers to enter into his heart will surely help. Does your father also have a strong devotion to St. Thomas Aquinas?

Love and prayers,

PP

[jswranch]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1049086' date='Aug 23 2006, 05:03 PM']
Whilst you might not be able to invoke his writings in your conversations with your father, entreating St. Benedict for prayers to enter into his heart will surely help. Does your father also have a strong devotion to St. Thomas Aquinas?
[/quote]
He is not too big and Aquinas. He has a distaste for 'logic alone' theology that gets too far from scripture. He gets real fussy with statements such as 'well she just had to be Immaculatly conceived because...." (yes I know Aquinas did not support the IC). As a challenge to dear old dad, I have asked him to defeat Monophysitism without logic alone.


Also, Chapter 64 3-5 is nice, but does not work on the Anglican types.

[puellapaschalis]

[quote name='jswranch' post='1049534' date='Aug 24 2006, 10:21 AM']
Also, Chapter 64 3-5 is nice, but does not work on the Anglican types.
[/quote]

Yes, I can understand. The main thing, it seems to me, is that St. Benedict lived and wrote in times which did indeed face problems which we also have to contend with, but there's a big raft of stuff that we have that he simply didn't. So when he talks about bishops, non-Catholics probably just don't see the Catholic context - or at least see it as unnecessary.

Does your father have any connections with a Catholic Benedictine House?

I'll pray for your father, and for your dialogue with him. You're braver than I would be in your situation!

Love and prayers,

PP

[jswranch]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1049602' date='Aug 24 2006, 09:36 AM']
Does your father have any connections with a Catholic Benedictine House?
[/quote]


No. I just thought his parish website, which refers to St. Benedict.

[url="http://www.allsaintsweatherford.org/"]http://www.allsaintsweatherford.org/[/url]