Maria Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I voted assumption because it seems a lot of people think it was completely unnecessary, and that, true or not, there was no point in defining it, especially in this modern age of tentative rapprochment. Though I don't know that people have that much theological difficulty with it; they just don't see any evidence for it or point to it -- it's one of the pointless, restricting doctrines of Rome. So if you were to write something on it, you'd want to work along the lines of why it's meaningful, Mary being a type of the Church and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortnun Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 The resurrection of this thread made my day! I read back through previous posts, and yes I know it's not dogma, but I go with Mediatrix too. And then it was a tie between Immaculate Conception and Assumption. But in the end, I voted for the Assumption. My own observation about the teaching of Marian dogmas/doctrines today is this... there is an inadequate connection between them and Christological beliefs and implications. If we say that Mary was conceived without sin, what does this say about who it is she gave birth to? etc etc. [quote name='sraf' date='Jan 7 2006, 03:38 AM']..... now I can look at it as a way to point out, "Say, we Catholics may need to polish up our image of Mary!" [right][snapback]848581[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Any thoughts you have, sraf, on how Catholics are currently imaging Mary and what we might do to polish them up? [quote name='Maria' date='Jan 8 2006, 07:24 PM'] So if you were to write something on it, you'd want to work along the lines of why it's meaningful, [b]Mary being a type of the Church and all.[/b] [right][snapback]849797[/snapback][/right] [/quote] [emphasis mine] Maria, could you elaborate on this idea perhaps... maybe not here, but in another thread or a PM. Your comment intrigues me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 [quote name='shortnun' date='Jan 8 2006, 08:12 PM'][emphasis mine] Maria, could you elaborate on this idea perhaps... maybe not here, but in another thread or a PM. Your comment intrigues me. [right][snapback]849844[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Maria can start another thread if she likes, but it's a very ancient concept that Mary fills a certain typology of the Church. My roommate has some books on it and I'd be happy to get the titles for you if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
track2004 Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I'm saying the virginity thing, but mostly because I don't get it. I can't defend that one like I can the others because people are all like, "She stayed a virgin even though she was married." And all I can think to say is, "That's what they tell me, but I have no idea why she would or why it is important at all." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 [quote name='track2004' date='Jan 8 2006, 10:35 PM']I'm saying the virginity thing, but mostly because I don't get it. I can't defend that one like I can the others because people are all like, "She stayed a virgin even though she was married." And all I can think to say is, "That's what they tell me, but I have no idea why she would or why it is important at all." [right][snapback]849987[/snapback][/right] [/quote] She was put aside for God. While it may not have been a sin for her to give her virginity to Joseph (they were married, after all), she was married to the Holy Spirit and put aside for God. It was a gesture of heroic virtue that she remained a virgin for God. It speaks to the sacred nature of her purity. It's also been a constant tradition in the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetpea316 Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 [quote name='Raphael' date='Jan 8 2006, 09:43 PM']She was put aside for God.  While it may not have been a sin for her to give her virginity to Joseph (they were married, after all), she was married to the Holy Spirit and put aside for God. It was a gesture of heroic virtue that she remained a virgin for God. It speaks to the sacred nature of her purity. It's also been a constant tradition in the Church. [right][snapback]850002[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Thanks Micah. I needed that explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_Joe Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 [quote name='Raphael' date='Jan 8 2006, 09:35 PM']Maria can start another thread if she likes, but it's a very ancient concept that Mary fills a certain typology of the Church. My roommate has some books on it and I'd be happy to get the titles for you if you like. [right][snapback]849985[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I might like those as well. Also, my roommate also questioned that Mary was ever-virgin. His main argument is that her marriage to Joseph would invalid because it was not consummated. This is a matter of God, human laws and customs cannot pass judgement. To be Holy means to be set aside. If I ever meet up with that roommate again, I'm telling him that I believe that Mary was a terrible sinner, by which I mean she was so full of grace she could not choose to sin even if she wanted to. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 [quote name='Old_Joe' date='Jan 9 2006, 01:04 AM']I might like those as well. Also, my roommate also questioned that Mary was ever-virgin. His main argument is that her marriage to Joseph would invalid because it was not consummated. This is a matter of God, human laws and customs cannot pass judgement. To be Holy means to be set aside. If I ever meet up with that roommate again, I'm telling him that I believe that Mary was a terrible sinner, by which I mean she was so full of grace she could not choose to sin even if she wanted to. : [right][snapback]850094[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Sacramental marriages are invalid if not consummated. Mary and Joseph were not married under the new covenant (it would have been before the new covenant was established) and so their marriage would have followed the law of Moses...I don't know what it says about consummation, but this is an important point to remember. As for your other comment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 4, 2007 Author Share Posted January 4, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovenbird03 Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I vote perpetual virginity. While there is widespread confusion over the Immaculate Conception, I haven't met a single Protestant who believes in Mary's perpetual virginity. I have, however, met Protestants who understand/believe the Immaculate Conception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morostheos Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 time for this thread's yearly bump, huh? I agree with Blessed Imelda - I think perpetual virginity is probably the most attacked doctrine, but the Immaculate Conception is probably the most misunderstood.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xTrishaxLynnx Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Assumption Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totus Tuus Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 I would guess Perpetual Virginity but it looks like Immaculate Conception is in the lead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Well a lot of people, including many 'Catholics', don't understand what the Immaculate Conception is: most think it's the Virgin Birth of Our Lord. But I would say Perpetual Virginity is also misunderstood since many people, including many Catholics, don't understand that she was a virgin DURING the birth of Christ (as in He passed through her womb like light passes through glass). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavenseeker Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 PV is the one I hear a lot about ppl not getting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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