GuillotineYo Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Yo. I'm new here. I'm an emcee with some sweet hip hop groups. Though I am Catholic, the groups themes are rather secular. We aren't drugged out thug rappers though- we basically rap about serving wack emcees, being dope, referencing pop culture- whatever. It's just fun stuff... Sometimes some of the material might not have been the most charitable, but that's another story, and personally I'm trying to make my lyrics not sinful and yet dope... However, I need some help from someone who is savvy with making beats on the computer, making mixtapes, rapping, performing, beats... I am in a moral dilemma... My friend is the producer of the group. He's a wizard. However, he uses pirated software to make the beats. Now, normally I wouldn't have a problem with it, but I don't want to make God mad at me for using the beats that he makes... I use legal software on my computer, but his beats are so tight... I've told him my issues and he said it to me like this: All hip hop is made up of sampling. To make a beat you take a break from a James Brown song, a guitar from a Rolling Stones song maybe- whatever. That is basically stealing- so by my logic does this make hip hop wrong alltogether? I thought, of course not- that's stupid. You need to use samples to make the beat, and by taking those samples you create something new... And yet it's still taking without permission and without paying someone (albeit you buy some cheap record for 50 cents or something and sample it)... I objected that you could legally clear it and gain permission and the rights to use the sample to which he replied, "Yeah, but we're not going to do that." Its true. We won't. Why should a bunch of young people (younger than 20) who aren't making a living off this have to write letters to Rolling Stones or whatever to make beats? That's stupid. By that same topic, maybe I should chill and use the beats off his computer, even though they are pirated, and when we get to the point where we need to clear the samples, maybe thats when we need to worry about the legitimacy of his software....? What do you guys think? On another note, about mixtapes- is it perfectly okay for me to use an industry beat to rap on (say the Still Dre beat) and put it on a mixtape and sell it for like a few bucks? Rappers always do this and use well known industry beats- I don't think its considered stealing in that way (and no one would care about my mixtape anyways), but is it okay if I got it from a friend who downloaded it off the net? I really need to stop worrying about this stuff and just make some dope music, but I don't want to mess up with this stuff either. Sorry for the long post- I could really use some advice from some experienced emcees, Djs, and producers who have dealt with these issues. Thanks a lot, everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven77 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 it's an issue that needs to be addressed---i hope peeps address it! i mean it. i can say that using pirated software is stealing (maybe pitch in to buy it). as for samples---is it? don't know... again, i hope peeps address it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuillotineYo Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 [quote name='Seven77' post='1188728' date='Feb 8 2007, 04:43 PM'] it's an issue that needs to be addressed---i hope peeps address it! i mean it. i can say that using pirated software is stealing (maybe pitch in to buy it). as for samples---is it? don't know... again, i hope peeps address it! [/quote] I wish someone who actually raps and produces would get in touch with me. Its stupid to think that sampling is stealing, but I dunno... Seems stupid that pirating expensive software is immoral. But who am I to say? I am buying the software FOR my friend- this is a temporary moral fix... I pray I won't have to keep buying software for him (what this comes down to is I buy the software and just never open it, so that the debt is fufilled... Wow, there's 80 bux down the drain...) My friend suggested if I'm so worried about this stuff I should just take the money I would use to buy the software and spend it on someone who needs it actually- like poor African kids. For some reason, I feel like there is truth in that... I dunno. Help is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phlex Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Honestly, bro...If you're looking for advice on something like this - try a more popular Christian hip hop forum... [url="http://www.sphereofhiphop.com/bb"]http://www.sphereofhiphop.com/bb[/url] The only *Catholic* hip hop regulars who post here are Akalyte & Zealous...The others don't really frequent Phatmass at all anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuillotineYo Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 [quote name='PHLEX' post='1188944' date='Feb 8 2007, 08:12 PM'] Honestly, bro...If you're looking for advice on something like this - try a more popular Christian hip hop forum... [url="http://www.sphereofhiphop.com/bb"]http://www.sphereofhiphop.com/bb[/url] The only *Catholic* hip hop regulars who post here are Akalyte & Zealous...The others don't really frequent Phatmass at all anymore. [/quote] Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven77 Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 [quote name='GuillotineYo' post='1188825' date='Feb 8 2007, 07:26 PM'] Seems stupid that pirating expensive software is immoral. But who am I to say? I am buying the software FOR my friend- this is a temporary moral fix... I pray I won't have to keep buying software for him (what this comes down to is I buy the software and just never open it, so that the debt is fufilled... Wow, there's 80 bux down the drain...) My friend suggested if I'm so worried about this stuff I should just take the money I would use to buy the software and spend it on someone who needs it actually- like poor African kids. For some reason, I feel like there is truth in that... I dunno. Help is needed. [/quote] pirating software is stealing--pure and simple. helping poor kids is very good---but would you steal to do it? now it's your friend stealing. let him learn from your example---you don't do it. If your friend steals, then should you buy what he's stealing and give it to him? that i dont know. go to SOHH forum about the sample issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealousrap Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 (edited) it has everything to do with whether you are selling it or not. if you are, it's illegal. if you aren't, it's fine. You said yourself that you aren't doing it for a living. At the same time, you can't look the other way morally just because you are only asking for a few bucks. The severity of a wrong doesn't mean it's still not wrong. Obviously, it's not as heinous as robbing a person at gunpoint, but you still recognize that it's suspect (or you wouldn't be grappling with it here). It might sound extreme, but it's a matter of philosophy. I'm not gonna pretend like I know your situation in depth so I'll leave it for you to ponder. so really it all depends on whether you are just fooling around with it for fun or trying to make money off of it. I have a friend that samples stuff a lot and uses that to promote his music, but then on his cd's the songs are on different beats. The key factor is that he gives his promo stuff out for free. I don't know if this helped at all, but that was my 2 cents I neglected to comment on the pirited software...that is something you should really stay clear of. If your friend simply won't budge, than you should look for beats somewhere else. There are tons of dope beats out there. It's not worth it to use illegally made beats, no matter how amazing they are. Soundclick.com has an instrumental beat section with tons of beats for free download and many you could use for promotional purposes. also, check out givemebeats.com. Edited February 9, 2007 by zealousrap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuillotineYo Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 [quote name='zealousrap' post='1189999' date='Feb 9 2007, 04:27 PM'] it has everything to do with whether you are selling it or not. if you are, it's illegal. if you aren't, it's fine. You said yourself that you aren't doing it for a living. At the same time, you can't look the other way morally just because you are only asking for a few bucks. The severity of a wrong doesn't mean it's still not wrong. Obviously, it's not as heinous as robbing a person at gunpoint, but you still recognize that it's suspect (or you wouldn't be grappling with it here). It might sound extreme, but it's a matter of philosophy. I'm not gonna pretend like I know your situation in depth so I'll leave it for you to ponder. so really it all depends on whether you are just fooling around with it for fun or trying to make money off of it. I have a friend that samples stuff a lot and uses that to promote his music, but then on his cd's the songs are on different beats. The key factor is that he gives his promo stuff out for free. I don't know if this helped at all, but that was my 2 cents I neglected to comment on the pirited software...that is something you should really stay clear of. If your friend simply won't budge, than you should look for beats somewhere else. There are tons of dope beats out there. It's not worth it to use illegally made beats, no matter how amazing they are. Soundclick.com has an instrumental beat section with tons of beats for free download and many you could use for promotional purposes. also, check out givemebeats.com. [/quote] Well, thanks for your help man... I'm not gonna stop making music cuz of this, and I'm not gonna break the group up. I'll just buy the software "for" my friend, in a manner of speaking and keep using his beats and keep the group together. It's worth it. So its cool if I make my mixtape with well known industry beats and give it out for free? I hope so... Even if I downloaded those beats (I didn't... I got them from peeps who did), it'll be just like promotional, look what a hot emcee I am... Ha ha, thanks for your help... I'll keep grappling with this, but I won't let it paralyze me in my music making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maydbyGOD Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 can we hear ur stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akalyte Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 (edited) Its ok to sample (without permission) if your not planning on going platinum or gold, and if you use small samples and chops. I love sampling and i really dont care what anyone has to say about the issue. I believe someone from BMG told point 5 covenant about the not going platinum or gold thing. I'm no thief. What we do on phatmass is not illegal. We are not bone thugs or 3 6 mafia. We're religious and our deeply religious music doesnt sell much anyhow. No harm in that....As for pirated software, thats a different story, and a sin. Edited February 10, 2007 by Akalyte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krush2k2 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Mc Just, Akalyte and Sammy Blaze - Triple 7 Mafia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiddkapps Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 [quote name='GuillotineYo' post='1187077' date='Feb 7 2007, 12:49 AM'] Yo. I'm new here. I'm an emcee with some sweet hip hop groups. Though I am Catholic, the groups themes are rather secular. We aren't drugged out thug rappers though- we basically rap about serving wack emcees, being dope, referencing pop culture- whatever. It's just fun stuff... Sometimes some of the material might not have been the most charitable, but that's another story, and personally I'm trying to make my lyrics not sinful and yet dope... However, I need some help from someone who is savvy with making beats on the computer, making mixtapes, rapping, performing, beats... I am in a moral dilemma... My friend is the producer of the group. He's a wizard. However, he uses pirated software to make the beats. Now, normally I wouldn't have a problem with it, but I don't want to make God mad at me for using the beats that he makes... I use legal software on my computer, but his beats are so tight... I've told him my issues and he said it to me like this: All hip hop is made up of sampling. To make a beat you take a break from a James Brown song, a guitar from a Rolling Stones song maybe- whatever. That is basically stealing- so by my logic does this make hip hop wrong alltogether? I thought, of course not- that's stupid. You need to use samples to make the beat, and by taking those samples you create something new... And yet it's still taking without permission and without paying someone (albeit you buy some cheap record for 50 cents or something and sample it)... I objected that you could legally clear it and gain permission and the rights to use the sample to which he replied, "Yeah, but we're not going to do that." Its true. We won't. Why should a bunch of young people (younger than 20) who aren't making a living off this have to write letters to Rolling Stones or whatever to make beats? That's stupid. By that same topic, maybe I should chill and use the beats off his computer, even though they are pirated, and when we get to the point where we need to clear the samples, maybe thats when we need to worry about the legitimacy of his software....? What do you guys think? On another note, about mixtapes- is it perfectly okay for me to use an industry beat to rap on (say the Still Dre beat) and put it on a mixtape and sell it for like a few bucks? Rappers always do this and use well known industry beats- I don't think its considered stealing in that way (and no one would care about my mixtape anyways), but is it okay if I got it from a friend who downloaded it off the net? I really need to stop worrying about this stuff and just make some dope music, but I don't want to mess up with this stuff either. Sorry for the long post- I could really use some advice from some experienced emcees, Djs, and producers who have dealt with these issues. Thanks a lot, everyone. [/quote] -pirated software is bad -mixtapes if not sold (and used for "promotional uses only") are permissible by law -there's nothing stopping you from sampling dre's beat in your basement studio - put it on a CD and sell it without permission you're violating copyright laws whether you're going platinum, gold or "britney spears status" - whether someone enforces their rights will probably depend on whether you're going platinum, gold or "no hit wonder" status -translation? if your pockets don't make cha-ching noises - unless it's a matter of principle - someone in their right mind usually won't sue for 'copyright infringement'...... but that doesn't have anything to do with whether it's right or wrong.... -it also doesn't matter how many seconds you sample - ...the copyright laws may still define that as a violation So whether it's right or wrong...benh...depends on what you define right and wrong as....I'm not fit to be your moral compass in how you tackle this topic- I'm just correcting some myths held re: copyright and sampling...let's be clear though - what is legal isn't always about what is moral and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReinnieR Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Kiddkapps?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiddkapps Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 [quote name='ReinnieR' post='1191318' date='Feb 11 2007, 01:48 AM'] Kiddkapps?? [/quote] Senior Airman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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