Lesbian Couple Denied Communion

[Dave]

I'm too lazy to show the link to this story, but you can surely find it if you do a search on MSNBC, where this article came from. Anyway, I applaud what the pastor did, but I wish he would've denied them Communion right when he first discovered they were a lesbian couple who had no intention of following Church teaching in the matter.

[quote]GILLETTE, Wyo. - Leah Vader and Lynne Huskinson, a lesbian couple who got married in Canada last August, sent a letter recently to their state legislator decrying a Wyoming bill that would deny recognition of same-sex marriages. The lawmaker read the letter on the floor of the Legislature.

Soon after, the local paper interviewed the couple on Ash Wednesday and ran a story and pictures of them with ash on their foreheads, a mark of their Roman Catholic faith.

It wasn’t long after that that the couple received a notice from their parish church telling them they have been barred from receiving Communion.

“If all this stuff hadn’t hit the newspaper, it wouldn’t have been any different than before — nobody would have known about it,” said the couple’s parish priest at St. Matthew’s, the Rev. Cliff Jacobson. “The sin is one thing. It’s a very different thing to go public with that sin.”

Catholics deemed sinners in the eyes of the church are sometimes taken aside and privately advised not to take Communion. But Cheyenne Bishop David Ricken, gay Catholic organizations and a national church spokeswoman said they could not recall any previous instance of a U.S. bishop denying the sacrament to a gay couple in writing.

Now Huskinson and Vader say they are struggling to reconcile their devotion to the church with their devotion to each other.

“You spend half your time defending your gayness to Catholics,” Vader said, “and the other half of your time defending your Catholicism to gays.”

The couple, who regularly attended Mass and took Communion, have not been back to St. Matthew’s since they received the letter a month and a half ago. Vader said they did not want to make a scene.

The 46-year-old newlyweds — Vader is a supervisor at a recycling center, Huskinson a coal miner — ran afoul of a sort of don’t-ask-don’t-tell policy on the church’s part.

“I told my wife in good conscience that if I had known those ladies, and we’d have been having a beer, I’d have just told them to keep everything to themselves,” parish music director John Chick said. He added that once news like this hits the papers, “someone’s forced to deal with it now, aren’t they?”

The parish priest said that after the couple put their engagement and marriage announcements in the local paper, he ran reminders of the church’s teachings in the parish bulletin as a warning.

Public disclosure seen as 'public advocacy'
After the Ash Wednesday story, the priest sent this letter: “It is with a heavy heart, in obedience to the instruction of Bishop David Ricken, that I must inform you that, because of your union and your public advocacy of same-sex unions, that you are unable to receive Communion.”

The bishop said the couple’s sex life constitutes a grave sin, “and the fact that it became so public, that was their choice.”

Last fall, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops overwhelmingly approved new guidelines that say parishes should welcome gays while telling them to be celibate because the church considers their sexuality “disordered.” The bishops said that anyone who knowingly persists in sinful behavior, such as gay sex or using artificial contraception, should refrain from taking Communion.

Professor Carl Raschke, chairman of religious studies at the University of Denver, said of the Cheyenne bishop’s decision: “It’s no more surprising that the Catholic Church would deny Communion to an openly gay couple than a Muslim mosque would deny access to somebody who ate pork.”

Sister Mary Ann Walsh, spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said the church allows local bishops to handle decisions on who may take Communion, so there is no record of how many have been barred from receiving the sacrament.

Relationship never secret
Walsh said most cases she has heard of involved public figures. During the 2004 presidential campaign, the St. Louis archbishop Raymond Burke said he would deny Communion to John Kerry, a Catholic who supports abortion rights.

Vader said the couple never made any secret of their relationship. She pointed to statuettes of two kissing Dutch girls in front of their single-wide trailer home. She also said that the couple posed for a church directory family photo with Vader’s children from a previous marriage, and that the church has sent mail to both of them at the same address for years.

Huskinson questioned why Catholics having premarital sex and using birth control are not barred from receiving Communion, too. But the parish priest said the difference is this: The other Catholics are “not going around broadcasting, ‘Hey I’m having sex outside of marriage’ or ‘I’m using birth control.”’[/quote]

[curtins]

good for the bishop and the priest

more of this need to be done

[N/A Gone]

If there was a strong stance supporting the bishops with this, Im sure they would not be as hesitant to make their moves like this

[HeavenlyCalling]

Good, more bishops are making the choice to whole-heartly support Church teachings. Very good indeed.

And as fr the sending mail to the same adress, they could have been roommates or renting out a room. If someone saw the same adress, it does neccesarily mean they are a gay couple.

Edited April 7, 2007 by HeavenlyCalling

[Resurrexi]

The bishop should have done something like this instead:

Quia N. diabolo suadente, christianum promissionem, quam in Baptismo professus est, per apostasiam postponens, Ecclesiam Dei devastare, ecclesiastica bona diripere ac pauperes Christi violenter opprimere non veretur; idcirco solliciti, ne per negligentiam pastoralem pereat, pro quo in tremendo judicio, ante Principem Pastorum Dominum nostrum Jesum Christum rationem reddere compellamur, juxta quod Dominus ipse terribiliter comminatus dicens: Si non annuntiaveris iniquo iniquitatem suam, sanguinem ejus de manu tua requiram, monuimus eum canonice, primo, secundo, tertio, et etiam quarto, ad ejus malitiam convincendam, ipsum ad emendationem, satisfactionem, et poenitentiam invitantes, et paterno affectu corripientes. Ipse vero, proh dolor! monita salutaria spernens, Ecclesiae Dei quam laesit, superbiae spiritu inflatus, satisfacere dedignatur. Sane praeceptis Dominicis atque Apostolicis informamur, quid de hujusmodi praevaricatoribus agere nos oporteat. Ait enim Dominus: Si manus tua vel pes tuus scandalizat te, abscinde eum, et projice abs te. Et Apostolus inquit: Auferte malum ex vobis. Et iterum: Si is qui frater nominatur, est fornicator, aut avarus, aut idolis serviens, aut maledicus, aut ebriosus, aut rapax, cum ejusmodi nec cibum sumere. Et Joannes prae ceteris dilectus Christi discipulus, talem nefarium hominem salutare prohibet, dicens: Nolite recipere eum in domum nec AVE ei dixeritis. Qui enim dicit illi AVE, communicat operibus ejus malignis. Dominica itaque atque Apostolica praecepta adimplentes, membrum putridum et insanabile, quod medicinam non recipit, ferro excommunicationis ab Ecclesiae corpore abscindamus, ne tam pestifero morbo reliqua corporis membra, veluti veneno inficiantur. Igitur quia monita nostra, crebrasque exhortationes contempsit, quia tertio secundum Dominicum praeceptum vocatus, ad emendationem, et poenitentiam venire despexit, quia culpam suam nec cogitavit, nec confessus est, nec missa legatione excusationem aliquam praetendit, nec veniam postulavit, sed diabolo cor ejus indurante, in incoepta malitia perseverat, juxta quod Apostolus dicit: Secundum duritiam suam, et cor impoenitens thesaurizat sibi iram in die irae: idcirco eum cum universis complicibus, fautoribusque suis, judicio Dei omnipotentis Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti, et beati Petri principis Apostolorum, et omnium Sanctorum, necnon et mediocritatis nostrae auctoritate, et potestate ligandi et solvendi in coelo et in terra nobis divinitus collata, a pretiosi Corporis et Sanguinis Domini perceptione, et a societate omnium Christianorum separamus, et a liminibus sanctae matris Ecclesiae in coelo et in terra excludimus, et excommunicatum et anathematizatum esse decernimus; et damnatum cum diabolo, et angelis ejus, et omnibus reprobis in ignem aeternum judicamus; donec a diaboli laqueis resipiscat, et ad emendationem, et poenitentiam redeat, et Ecclesiae Dei, quam laesit, satisfaciat, tradentes eum satanae in interitum carnis, ut spiritus ejus salvus fiat in die judicii.

Et omnes respondent:
Fiat. Fiat. Fiat.

[prose]

[quote]Huskinson questioned why Catholics having premarital sex and using birth control are not barred from receiving Communion, too. But the parish priest said the difference is this: The other Catholics are “not going around broadcasting, ‘Hey I’m having sex outside of marriage’ or ‘I’m using birth control.”’[/quote]

I think that was a pretty weak answer.

It is too bad that these women feel so abandoned. It is even more sad that they didn't get support and discipline BEFORE it got as far as false "marriage".

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1233846' date='Apr 7 2007, 06:50 PM']The bishop should have done something like this instead:

Quia N. diabolo suadente, christianum promissionem, quam in Baptismo professus est, per apostasiam postponens, Ecclesiam Dei devastare, ecclesiastica bona diripere ac pauperes Christi violenter opprimere non veretur; idcirco solliciti, ne per negligentiam pastoralem pereat, pro quo in tremendo judicio, ante Principem Pastorum Dominum nostrum Jesum Christum rationem reddere compellamur, juxta quod Dominus ipse terribiliter comminatus dicens: Si non annuntiaveris iniquo iniquitatem suam, sanguinem ejus de manu tua requiram, monuimus eum canonice, primo, secundo, tertio, et etiam quarto, ad ejus malitiam convincendam, ipsum ad emendationem, satisfactionem, et poenitentiam invitantes, et paterno affectu corripientes. Ipse vero, proh dolor! monita salutaria spernens, Ecclesiae Dei quam laesit, superbiae spiritu inflatus, satisfacere dedignatur. Sane praeceptis Dominicis atque Apostolicis informamur, quid de hujusmodi praevaricatoribus agere nos oporteat. Ait enim Dominus: Si manus tua vel pes tuus scandalizat te, abscinde eum, et projice abs te. Et Apostolus inquit: Auferte malum ex vobis. Et iterum: Si is qui frater nominatur, est fornicator, aut avarus, aut idolis serviens, aut maledicus, aut ebriosus, aut rapax, cum ejusmodi nec cibum sumere. Et Joannes prae ceteris dilectus Christi discipulus, talem nefarium hominem salutare prohibet, dicens: Nolite recipere eum in domum nec AVE ei dixeritis. Qui enim dicit illi AVE, communicat operibus ejus malignis. Dominica itaque atque Apostolica praecepta adimplentes, membrum putridum et insanabile, quod medicinam non recipit, ferro excommunicationis ab Ecclesiae corpore abscindamus, ne tam pestifero morbo reliqua corporis membra, veluti veneno inficiantur. Igitur quia monita nostra, crebrasque exhortationes contempsit, quia tertio secundum Dominicum praeceptum vocatus, ad emendationem, et poenitentiam venire despexit, quia culpam suam nec cogitavit, nec confessus est, nec missa legatione excusationem aliquam praetendit, nec veniam postulavit, sed diabolo cor ejus indurante, in incoepta malitia perseverat, juxta quod Apostolus dicit: Secundum duritiam suam, et cor impoenitens thesaurizat sibi iram in die irae: idcirco eum cum universis complicibus, fautoribusque suis, judicio Dei omnipotentis Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti, et beati Petri principis Apostolorum, et omnium Sanctorum, necnon et mediocritatis nostrae auctoritate, et potestate ligandi et solvendi in coelo et in terra nobis divinitus collata, a pretiosi Corporis et Sanguinis Domini perceptione, et a societate omnium Christianorum separamus, et a liminibus sanctae matris Ecclesiae in coelo et in terra excludimus, et excommunicatum et anathematizatum esse decernimus; et damnatum cum diabolo, et angelis ejus, et omnibus reprobis in ignem aeternum judicamus; donec a diaboli laqueis resipiscat, et ad emendationem, et poenitentiam redeat, et Ecclesiae Dei, quam laesit, satisfaciat, tradentes eum satanae in interitum carnis, ut spiritus ejus salvus fiat in die judicii.

Et omnes respondent:
Fiat. Fiat. Fiat.[/quote]
show off

[jmjtina]

Prayers for the bishops and priests who uphold the teachings of the Church. Bravisimo!

Prayers for the couple, who it seems, every one of thier Catholic friends seemed to be saying, "Hush, don't tell." instead of helping them, with prayers, support in remaining in grace, etc. If we'd been having a beer, what perfect time to share the Good News!

We must be compassionate, yet we can never condone the action.

[Didymus]

Why did they feel it necessary to quote the parish music director? I cant stand the media.


[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1233846' date='Apr 7 2007, 05:50 PM']The bishop should have done something like this instead:

Quia N. diabolo suadente, christianum promissionem, quam in Baptismo professus est, per apostasiam postponens, Ecclesiam Dei devastare, ecclesiastica bona diripere ac pauperes Christi violenter opprimere non veretur; idcirco solliciti, ne per negligentiam pastoralem pereat, pro quo in tremendo judicio, ante Principem Pastorum Dominum nostrum Jesum Christum rationem reddere compellamur, juxta quod Dominus ipse terribiliter comminatus dicens: Si non annuntiaveris iniquo iniquitatem suam, sanguinem ejus de manu tua requiram, monuimus eum canonice, primo, secundo, tertio, et etiam quarto, ad ejus malitiam convincendam, ipsum ad emendationem, satisfactionem, et poenitentiam invitantes, et paterno affectu corripientes. Ipse vero, proh dolor! monita salutaria spernens, Ecclesiae Dei quam laesit, superbiae spiritu inflatus, satisfacere dedignatur. Sane praeceptis Dominicis atque Apostolicis informamur, quid de hujusmodi praevaricatoribus agere nos oporteat. Ait enim Dominus: Si manus tua vel pes tuus scandalizat te, abscinde eum, et projice abs te. Et Apostolus inquit: Auferte malum ex vobis. Et iterum: Si is qui frater nominatur, est fornicator, aut avarus, aut idolis serviens, aut maledicus, aut ebriosus, aut rapax, cum ejusmodi nec cibum sumere. Et Joannes prae ceteris dilectus Christi discipulus, talem nefarium hominem salutare prohibet, dicens: Nolite recipere eum in domum nec AVE ei dixeritis. Qui enim dicit illi AVE, communicat operibus ejus malignis. Dominica itaque atque Apostolica praecepta adimplentes, membrum putridum et insanabile, quod medicinam non recipit, ferro excommunicationis ab Ecclesiae corpore abscindamus, ne tam pestifero morbo reliqua corporis membra, veluti veneno inficiantur. Igitur quia monita nostra, crebrasque exhortationes contempsit, quia tertio secundum Dominicum praeceptum vocatus, ad emendationem, et poenitentiam venire despexit, quia culpam suam nec cogitavit, nec confessus est, nec missa legatione excusationem aliquam praetendit, nec veniam postulavit, sed diabolo cor ejus indurante, in incoepta malitia perseverat, juxta quod Apostolus dicit: Secundum duritiam suam, et cor impoenitens thesaurizat sibi iram in die irae: idcirco eum cum universis complicibus, fautoribusque suis, judicio Dei omnipotentis Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti, et beati Petri principis Apostolorum, et omnium Sanctorum, necnon et mediocritatis nostrae auctoritate, et potestate ligandi et solvendi in coelo et in terra nobis divinitus collata, a pretiosi Corporis et Sanguinis Domini perceptione, et a societate omnium Christianorum separamus, et a liminibus sanctae matris Ecclesiae in coelo et in terra excludimus, et excommunicatum et anathematizatum esse decernimus; et damnatum cum diabolo, et angelis ejus, et omnibus reprobis in ignem aeternum judicamus; donec a diaboli laqueis resipiscat, et ad emendationem, et poenitentiam redeat, et Ecclesiae Dei, quam laesit, satisfaciat, tradentes eum satanae in interitum carnis, ut spiritus ejus salvus fiat in die judicii.

Et omnes respondent:
Fiat. Fiat. Fiat.[/quote]

but then no one would understand what the devil he was talking about and he would have to end up translating it anyways

[curtins]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1233846' date='Apr 7 2007, 06:50 PM']The bishop should have done something like this instead:

Quia N. diabolo suadente, christianum promissionem, quam in Baptismo professus est, per apostasiam postponens, Ecclesiam Dei devastare, ecclesiastica bona diripere ac pauperes Christi violenter opprimere non veretur; idcirco solliciti, ne per negligentiam pastoralem pereat, pro quo in tremendo judicio, ante Principem Pastorum Dominum nostrum Jesum Christum rationem reddere compellamur, juxta quod Dominus ipse terribiliter comminatus dicens: Si non annuntiaveris iniquo iniquitatem suam, sanguinem ejus de manu tua requiram, monuimus eum canonice, primo, secundo, tertio, et etiam quarto, ad ejus malitiam convincendam, ipsum ad emendationem, satisfactionem, et poenitentiam invitantes, et paterno affectu corripientes. Ipse vero, proh dolor! monita salutaria spernens, Ecclesiae Dei quam laesit, superbiae spiritu inflatus, satisfacere dedignatur. Sane praeceptis Dominicis atque Apostolicis informamur, quid de hujusmodi praevaricatoribus agere nos oporteat. Ait enim Dominus: Si manus tua vel pes tuus scandalizat te, abscinde eum, et projice abs te. Et Apostolus inquit: Auferte malum ex vobis. Et iterum: Si is qui frater nominatur, est fornicator, aut avarus, aut idolis serviens, aut maledicus, aut ebriosus, aut rapax, cum ejusmodi nec cibum sumere. Et Joannes prae ceteris dilectus Christi discipulus, talem nefarium hominem salutare prohibet, dicens: Nolite recipere eum in domum nec AVE ei dixeritis. Qui enim dicit illi AVE, communicat operibus ejus malignis. Dominica itaque atque Apostolica praecepta adimplentes, membrum putridum et insanabile, quod medicinam non recipit, ferro excommunicationis ab Ecclesiae corpore abscindamus, ne tam pestifero morbo reliqua corporis membra, veluti veneno inficiantur. Igitur quia monita nostra, crebrasque exhortationes contempsit, quia tertio secundum Dominicum praeceptum vocatus, ad emendationem, et poenitentiam venire despexit, quia culpam suam nec cogitavit, nec confessus est, nec missa legatione excusationem aliquam praetendit, nec veniam postulavit, sed diabolo cor ejus indurante, in incoepta malitia perseverat, juxta quod Apostolus dicit: Secundum duritiam suam, et cor impoenitens thesaurizat sibi iram in die irae: idcirco eum cum universis complicibus, fautoribusque suis, judicio Dei omnipotentis Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti, et beati Petri principis Apostolorum, et omnium Sanctorum, necnon et mediocritatis nostrae auctoritate, et potestate ligandi et solvendi in coelo et in terra nobis divinitus collata, a pretiosi Corporis et Sanguinis Domini perceptione, et a societate omnium Christianorum separamus, et a liminibus sanctae matris Ecclesiae in coelo et in terra excludimus, et excommunicatum et anathematizatum esse decernimus; et damnatum cum diabolo, et angelis ejus, et omnibus reprobis in ignem aeternum judicamus; donec a diaboli laqueis resipiscat, et ad emendationem, et poenitentiam redeat, et Ecclesiae Dei, quam laesit, satisfaciat, tradentes eum satanae in interitum carnis, ut spiritus ejus salvus fiat in die judicii.

Et omnes respondent:
Fiat. Fiat. Fiat.[/quote]

miach, a translation please?

[toledo_jesus]

sweet. About time the U.S. Bishops started issuing written decrees. That's Old School. word

Edited April 8, 2007 by toledo_jesus

[A Yearning Heart]

We had that in Australia in 2002 that was reported in the Sydney Morning Herald

[url="http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/05/19/1021801638594.html?oneclick=true"]http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/05/19/...l?oneclick=true[/url]

[Cardinal] Pell lashes out after gays refused communion

[Luthien]

[quote name='A Yearning Heart' post='1234816' date='Apr 8 2007, 09:38 AM']We had that in Australia in 2002 that was reported in the Sydney Morning Herald

[url="http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/05/19/1021801638594.html?oneclick=true"]http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/05/19/...l?oneclick=true[/url]

[Cardinal] Pell lashes out after gays refused communion[/quote]

Wow, that article wasn't biased at all.

Edited April 8, 2007 by Luthien

[curtins]

these people are almost laughable

[Aloysius]

Christ is Risen! Alleluia! Alleluia!

[quote]Huskinson questioned why Catholics having premarital sex and using birth control are not barred from receiving Communion, too. But the parish priest said the difference is this: The other Catholics are “not going around broadcasting, ‘Hey I’m having sex outside of marriage’ or ‘I’m using birth control.”’[/quote]

They ARE barred from receiving Holy Communion, we just use the honor system with them because we cannot know for sure.