Are The Good Friday Prayers "anti Semitic"?

[mortify]

Once a year on Good Friday the Church according to the Tradtional Latin Rite, prays for the conversion of various disbelievers. Opponents of the Motu Proprio believe widening the Ancient Rite will foster "anti Semitism" because of these prayers. Provided is an excerpt of the prayers according to the 1952 missal (please note that the 1962 Missal omits the word "faithless"), what do you think?

[quote]Let us pray also for heretics and schismatics: that our Lord and God would be pleased to rescue them from their errors; and recall them to our holy mother the Catholic and Apostolic Church. Let us pray. Let us kneel. Arise. Almighty and eternal God, Who savest all, and wouldest that no one should perish: look on the souls that are led astray by the deceit of the devil: that having set aside all heretical evil, the hearts of those that err may repent and return to the unity of Thy truth. Through our Lord Jesus Christ, Who livest and reignest with God the Father in the unity of the Holy Ghost, God, through all endless ages. Amen.

[color="#FF0000"]Let us pray also for the faithless Jews: that our God and Lord may remove the veil from their hearts; that they also may acknowledge Our Lord Jesus Christ. Let us pray. ('Amen' is not responded, nor is said 'Let us pray', or 'Let us kneel', or 'Arise', but immediately is said:) Almighty and Eternal God, Who dost not exclude from Thy mercy even the faithless Jews: hear our prayers, which we offer for the blindness of that people; that acknowledging the light of Thy Truth, which is Christ, they may be delivered from their darkness. Through the same Lord Jesus Christ, Who livest and reignest with God the Father in the unity of the Holy Ghost, God, through all endless ages. Amen.[/color]

Let us pray also for the pagans: that Almighty God take away iniquity from their hearts: that leaving aside their idols they may be converted to the true and living God, and His only Son, Jesus Christ our God and Lord. Let us pray. Let us kneel. Arise. Almighty and Eternal God, Who seekest always, not the death, but the life of sinners: mercifully hear our prayer, and deliver them from the worship of idols: and admit them into Thy holy Church for the praise and glory of Thy Name. Through our Lord Jesus Christ, Who livest and reignest with God the Father in the unity of the Holy Ghost, God, through all endless ages. Amen.[/quote]

[Moneybags]

NO, NO, NO

[Resurrexi]

no, yes, no.

I don't really care about harming Catholic-Jewish dialogue. I just want my TLM.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1308138' date='Jul 1 2007, 05:50 PM']I don't really care about harming Catholic-Jewish dialogue. I just want my TLM.[/quote]
That's a GREAT attitude! Obviously this must be the holiness, piety, and concern for salvation that love for the Mass should bring out in you.

[StColette]

No, No, No

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1308178' date='Jul 1 2007, 07:07 PM']That's a GREAT attitude! Obviously this must be the holiness, piety, and concern for salvation that love for the Mass should bring out in you.[/quote]

[mortify]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1308178' date='Jul 1 2007, 06:07 PM']That's a GREAT attitude! Obviously this must be the holiness, piety, and concern for salvation that love for the Mass should bring out in you.[/quote]

I think StThomasMore meant if we had to choose between our liturgical prayers and furthering dialogue, he would go with the former.

I don't think we should lose sleep over worrying whether some disbelievers are upset that we pray for their conversion.

[Moneybags]

[quote name='mortify' post='1308224' date='Jul 1 2007, 07:24 PM']I think StThomasMore meant if we had to choose between our liturgical prayers and furthering dialogue, he would go with the former.[/quote]

I completely agree with St. Thomas More. We must never change our prayers just so non-believers will be pleased. We should be working towards the salvation and conversion of others - not false ecumenism.

[Sojourner]

Are these prayers necessary for the practice of our faith? No. Should they harm Jewish-Catholic dialogue? I don't believe so.

But as a non-necessary aspect of the faith, I would be more than willing to change the sentiment to something non-offensive if this were seriously a stumbling block to someone being able to take seriously the claims of the Church.

I'm with St. Paul on this one: "For whereas I was free as to all, I made myself the servant of all, that I might gain the more. And I became to the Jews, a Jew, that I might gain the Jews: To them that are under the law, as if I were under the law, (whereas myself was not under the law,) that I might gain them that were under the law. To them that were without the law, as if I were without the law, (whereas I was not without the law of God, but was in the law of Christ,) that I might gain them that were without the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak. I became all things to all men, that I might save all. And I do all things for the gospel's sake: that I may be made partaker thereof."

[goldenchild17]

No
Yes (probably)
No

Sometimes the truth hurts. Should we refrain from praying for heretics just because it might hurt their feelings? I would hope not.

[Sojourner]

Nobody's talking about not praying for unbelievers.

From my point of view, this is about whether we should persist in including a non-necessary liturgical element if it proves to be a stumbling block or deterrent to those who might otherwise be more favorably inclined to Catholicism. I think we should not, if indeed it proves to be a stumbling block.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Sounds like a dumb reason to reject the TLM outright. I could see some people wanting to have that one prayer changed, but to reject the traditional Mass on the basis of a single little snippet of it is pretty dumb.
I guess we should reject the current rite because Eucharistic prayer two is offensive to some people (just a made up hypothetical scenario btw).

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1308344' date='Jul 1 2007, 07:20 PM']Sounds like a dumb reason to reject the TLM outright. I could see some people wanting to have that one prayer changed, but to reject the traditional Mass on the basis of a single little snippet of it is pretty dumb.
I guess we should reject the current rite because Eucharistic prayer two is offensive to some people (just a made up hypothetical scenario btw).[/quote]
It does seem like a dumb reason, I agree. If it is really a problem then change the prayer.

Of course some here are averse to changing the prayer at all.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1308346' date='Jul 1 2007, 07:21 PM']It does seem like a dumb reason, I agree. If it is really a problem then change the prayer.

Of course some here are averse to changing the prayer at all.[/quote]
Yeah, I can see the validity of the perspective which sees the prayer as distasteful. The prayer is no doubt from an era in which Catholic-Jewish relations were nothing like they are today. I think that the relationship with the Jews that has been cultivated by recent Pontiffs ought to be respected. On the other hand I think some people are threatened (and rightfully so) by the agenda which seeks to say that the Jews have their own saving covenant and don't need the Church or Christ. I could go either way on this issue, and if it really is a serious issue I trust that the Church will make the most prudent and wise decision. Pope Benedict is the man so I'm not terribly worried about it.

[KnightofChrist]

Our belief in Christ Jesus has proven to be a stumbling block, as well as many other parts of the faith, they should not be drop because of PC. And prayer for the conversion of jews and pagans is necessary part of the Holy Mass.