tate4242 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I can join PETA and still be a member of the Catholic Church can't I??? OK, I suppose that falling in love with Ms. Ingrid Newkirk in addition to Maria Jose will definitely present a problem! Bless me Father for I have tried to stop sinning?!?!?! [url="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tate4CentralNova/message/55"]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tate4CentralNova/message/55[/url] Dennis Tate officially joins PETA! I saw "I Am An Animal" last night and bright and early this morning I joined PETA and offered Ms. Ingrid Newkirk official co-applicant status in my applictions for the Virgin Earth anti-global warming award. I left these comments on her website: [url="http://www.peta.org/index.asp"]http://www.peta.org/index.asp[/url] Shalom Ingrid: If my mum was less of a hermit, didn't have alzheimers and did not depend on nursing home care I think she would wish to travel to wherever you happened to be to assist you in your efforts. Pretty much all that I can do for you is offer you to become one of my four(?) official co-applicants in my submissions for the $25 million Virgin Earth anti-global award. You can read part one here: [url="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tate4CentralNova/message/1"]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tate4CentralNova/message/1[/url] "Anti-Armageddon Paradigm Shift Monetary Policy Theory - The Introduction." I liked the documentry very much. I think that I may have fallen in love with you Ingrid, and I thought that your opponents were full of $#*$. (I'm hoping that my seriously cool wife Maria Jose will be OK with this)??? With Love. Dennis Tate .............. I do hope that Ms. Newkirk will reply to my offer because I certainly can't make her an official co-applicant without formally hearing from her, after all, I strongly suspect that she may be ashamed to be in any way associated with a Canadian politician who could honestly state that President George W. Bush is my favourite US President since Mr. Ronald Reagan. Ever since reading Mila 18 by Leon Uris, I regard that stopping a holocaust is the ultimate good. It could be argued that I have became amoral, entirely devoid of firm ethics, because dennis tate no longer recognizes any other laws than "love G-d with your heart, mind soul and strength and love your neighbour as yourself." Every other commandment, statute, edict and judgement is in my opinion negociable under extreme circumstances. Because President Bush and his supporters have prevented ex-President Saddam Hussein from wiping out the Kurdish people, Mr. Bush is one of my all time favourites. dennis tate is a proponent of moral relativism and yes, I do agree with you that the present administrations in both Canada and the US may be terrible when it comes to cooperation with even the most reasonable measure proposed by PETA. In spite of this fact Former President Clinton uttered a truly intelligent statement when he said something to the effect that both President Bush as well as Senator Kerry were well intentioned and likeble men who simply viewed the world differently. Neither one nor the other of these men (nor even Ms. Hillary Clinton for that matter) deserve to be demonized (this is obviously my comment not Mr. Clintons who might require further definition/clarification on the term demonized in order to add his ex-wife to this list, but personally although I strongly tend to be moreso in favor of the overall GOP strategy, I do admit that animal rights issues may well be addressed more effectively by a Democrtic government if Americans decide to vote for them instead of Ron Paul, Senator Brownback or Guiliani.) [url="http://www.brownback.com/s/"]http://www.brownback.com/s/[/url] (Guess which R. candidate I tend to favor?) I plan to send this e-mail to many GOP discussion groups so hopefully we can make some progress on the issue of animal rights activism by the political right as well as by the Christian, Jewish and Islamic community. (Now if only some of them will hit forward). Ingrid, you can meet the other potential official co-applicants here at this message link: [url="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tate4CentralNova/message/40"]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tate4CentralNova/message/40[/url] Honey, here is a wise assertion from Dr. Matthew Fox that I feel is critical in your actually achieving your goal of making both life as well as death much more tolerable, (maybe even joyful now and again), for our furry and/or feathered and/or finned and scaled friends: "The peril of Mother Earth and our children will not be alleviated without enlisting our spiritual heritage in the struggle. "Fight the worst with the best," advises farmer/poet/prophet Wendell Berry. At a National Academy of Sciences conference in 1986 exploring the mass extinction of plants and animals on our planet, Paul R. Ehrlich of Stanford University declared, "Scientific analysis points curiously, toward the need for a quasi-religious transformation of contemporary cultures." (Coming of The Cosmic Christ by Dr. Matthew Fox). Ingrid, Love, I have absolutely no problem with your being an atheist. My worship I suppose of a "G-d of Forces" may perhaps be even more dangerous than your present lack of belief. Ingrid, May the G-d of Abraham bless you and guard you as well as your supporters. May YHWH the Father and YHWH the Mother/Wisdom (who was with Him from the beginning) lift up their countennce upon you and be gracious to you. My ABBa Father YHWH shine His face upon you and give you peace/Shalom. Dennis Tate p.s. I shall leave you with one more helpful quotation: [url="http://reluctant-messenger.com/aquarian_gospel_071_077.htm"]http://reluctant-messenger.com/aquarian_gospel_071_077.htm[/url] "And Jesus saw a wounded dog; it could not move; it lay beside the way and groaned with pain. He took it in his arms and bore it to the home where he abode. 20 He poured the healing oil into the wounds; he cared for it as though it were a child till it was strong and well. 21 And Jesus saw a little boy who had no home, and he was hungry; when he called for bread the people turned away. 22 And Jesus took the child and gave him bread; he wrapped him in his own warm coat, and found for him a home. 23 To those who followed him the master said, If man would gain again his lost estate he must respect the brotherhood of life. 24 Whoever is not kind to every form of life--to man, to beast, to bird, and creeping thing--cannot expect the blessings of the Holy One; for as we give, so God will give to us." (Aquarian Age Gospel of Jesus, chapter 74) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abercius24 Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I'm still trying to forgive PETA for that insulting "Jesus was a Vegan" campaign they ran some 10 years ago. That had to be some of the most blatantly dishonest propoganda I have ever come across in my life. "Jesus didn't eat the fish with the Apostles after His resurrection. No, the fish was a symbol of Christian unity. It was only metaphorical." I'm mean, really! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I am against the cruelty of animals. I am against the way PETA goes around "defending" animals. And why are you quoting a book that has some serious flaws in it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but does not the book you are quoting claim that Jesus was also conceived by a human father? Why use quotes from a source that is in direct opposition to the most basic Christian beliefs? I think you'd find much discussion on the subject of PETA and the tactics they use and the Catholic view. Bottom line: In no way is a human on the same level as an animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I'm with JMJ Tina here. I'm not an avid meat eater, but we are allowed to kill animals. They are not equal to our lives. They do not have immortal souls... so in a sense, we'd be doing them a favour be eating them... heheh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 (edited) I don't know about the compatibility of being a Catholic and being a member of PETA -- but I DO know that [b]being a moral relativist is NOT compatible with Catholicism.[/b] And you might be right in that a Democratic government could be of some benefit concerning animal rights issues, but [b]consider how the vast majority of our Democratic politicians destroy the rights of the unborn.[/b] The GOP has some bad apples in the barrel as well. Things like abortion and euthanasia are non negotiables when it comes to voting as a Catholic, whether it's Democrat or Republican. And I don't think the writings of Matthew Fox are very enriching for one's faith as a Catholic, either. His work is new age garbage and far from authentic, true Catholicism. I think Teresa of Avila, Hildegard of Bingen and John of the Cross would be better if you're looking for solid works on Catholic mysticism, and the life of St. Francis or writings by John Paul and Benedict XVI on living as a Catholic and steward of the earth and God's creatures. I hope that doesn't all come across as harsh but I say these concerning life as a Catholic in full communion and faithfulness with the church. I sponsored a very close friend who joined the church with heterodox ideas that weren't fully confronted and this lead to problems later on. Peace and God bless you! Edited November 23, 2007 by Ash Wednesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allis-challmers Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 (edited) I am against being cruel to animals. I am for eating animals!!! and yes I wish being a member of Peta could get you excommunicated from the catholic church. they are a very annoying and worthless group. but that is my opinion Edited November 23, 2007 by allis-challmers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontifex Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 When God is absent man is absent as well. Our culture has lost sight of God. The upsurge of animal protection is the result of a culture that is not able to see itself correctly. When we lose sight of God, we forget what it is to be human. Satan would love nothing more than for us to lower ourselves to the level of pure animal. In fact, we are placing ourselves below the level of animals for certainly most species of animals have the sense enough not to kill their own children. What an absolute poverty that we can spend so much money for animal rights while a young pregnant mother has hardly any resources when she needs help. (I say that to the shame of republicans and democrats.) Along those lines, let us make sure that if we support a pro-life candidate that we also make sure that provision is made for the unwed mother as well. (off topic, vent, had to be said) I love my dog, but he ain't going to heaven and if I ever get hungry enough he will be dinner. Thx, Pontifex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontifex Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 I know we have been taking jabs at Peta but I do want to answer your questions about becoming Catholic. Yes, you can become a Catholic but I would certainly suggest that you seek to understand that organization and what they stand for. It sounds like you are an animal lover and I am as well to a point. Seek to incorporate your love for animals and all of God's creation into the ancient wisdom of the Catholic faith. In Christ, Fr. Pontifex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 I support People for the Eating of Tasty Animals. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamweaver Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 (edited) While speaking out and acting against animal abuse and cruelty is admirable, I don't support the tactics and methods that PETA uses. They support harassment, to outright [url="http://www.animalscam.com/peta_7things.cfm"]vandalism and terrorism[/url]. I'd recommend volunteering for ASPCA or a local animal shelter instead. That, and I've never met a steak or ham sandwich I didn't like. Edited November 23, 2007 by Dreamweaver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tate4242 Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 [quote name='abercius24' post='1423712' date='Nov 22 2007, 04:02 PM']I'm still trying to forgive PETA for that insulting "Jesus was a Vegan" campaign they ran some 10 years ago. That had to be some of the most blatantly dishonest propoganda I have ever come across in my life. "Jesus didn't eat the fish with the Apostles after His resurrection. No, the fish was a symbol of Christian unity. It was only metaphorical." I'm mean, really![/quote] Excellent point. I did not see that campaign, I agree with you that they were theologiaclly in error in this assertion that Jesus was a Vegan. I believe that Yahushua/Jesus fulfilled every aspect of the law of Moshe/Moses in every detail and after his step-father Joseph's death he may well even have personally slain a lamb for Passover seder. am i really angry that PETa would get into incorrect theology? Not really. One of my best friends in my life was Mr. Reg Forbes. He was Jehovah's Witness from Saskatchewan who travelled door to door in my area of NS six days per week. He was an astonishingly dedicated person and an impressive theologian in his own right who could complete virtually any passage of scripture that I could refer partly to. But, even Reg took practically every Biblical incident that I refered to as a metaphor....needless to say I found this terribly annoying. We had our first Biblical debate when I was perhaps 14 or 15 which would be back in '73,'74. He was all over me in our first discussion. He won that one. But in my opinion this did not happen again. Even Mr. Forbes himself stated that he could not prove me wrong on any subject and if I wanted to attend his church and be a Jehovah's Witness without making my disgreements into a public debate that I would be welcomed there. Options are wonderful and I truly apprecited this invitation to fellowship with these wonderful people but my heart was in another place and I ended up attending the Worldwide Church of God from 1979 - 1990 or '91. If Reg Forbes who was a continual student of scripture took most of the Bible as some sort of metaphor then it does not surprise me in the least that many of the members of PETa would tend to make the same error. The people of PETa, despite their mistakes and examples of being too extreme in some ways: [quote][size=3]Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself[/size]?[/quote] ....they are playing an importnt role in setting the stage for this time period: [quote]The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. [size=3]They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain[/size]: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.[/quote](Isaiah 11) although I personally am not a vegan yet, I do believe that it is unethical to allow workers to break the leg bones of turkeys just for the fun of it. The two thieves on either side of Yahushua/Jesus had their leg bones broken, one of these men met with Jesus/Yahushua just after his death in the garden/paradise environment seen by approximately eight million people in North america alone who have been near death for some reason. From what I have read of nde's I believe that the workers who inflict unnecessary cruelty on any living thing, they will psychically experience every bit of pain that they put upon these helpless creatures. Ms. Ingrid Newkirk for all her many flaws is doing a far better job of warning the wicked to turn from their wicked ways, at least in this are of not being cruel, than I have been doing in any manner. Not only that but like the King Cyrus type of Isaiah 42 - 46, she does not know the LORD and so whatever she does is motivated by pure altruism. She is not attempting to avoid hell or attain heaven, she is simply trying her best to do what is right and ethical. Yes, in some ways she lacks judgment...but if we his own people, also in so many ways lack this critical aspect of character, then surely we aught to extend patience and respect to an atheist...who is also truly an angel of mercy among us. If anybody here is up for it...and has some extra time....I could sure use assistance with this political yahoo group: [url="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tate4CentralNova/messages/"] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tate4CentralNova/messages/[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tate4242 Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 [quote name='jmjtina' post='1423728' date='Nov 22 2007, 04:37 PM']I am against the cruelty of animals. I am against the way PETA goes around "defending" animals. And why are you quoting a book that has some serious flaws in it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but does not the book you are quoting claim that Jesus was also conceived by a human father? Why use quotes from a source that is in direct opposition to the most basic Christian beliefs? I think you'd find much discussion on the subject of PETA and the tactics they use and the Catholic view. Bottom line: In no way is a human on the same level as an animal.[/quote] Good points jmjtina: Why would I quote the Aquarian Gospel? Because I found this book so utterly fascinating that I read it perhaps six times already. From what I understand this book presents a profoundly Jewish Jesus/Yahushua whose theology fits perfectly with Chassidic and Orthodox Jewish thoughts on so many subjects where the Jesus of the canonied New Testment seems perhaps to diverge. Rabbi Quinn on my yahoo group gives several writings that have made me wonder to what degree the gospels as they are preserved for us are influenced by the notes and comments of editors such as Tertulian: [url="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tate4CentralNova/message/42"]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tate4CentralNova/message/42[/url] [b]The Case Against Hell[/b] [quote]Hell Contradicts The Work of the Messiah: Popular myth: Jesus came to save the sinner from his destination of everlasting Hell. Not exactly true! Hell was never a place that the Jews were hoping to be saved from, since they didn't even believe in it! But they did need to be saved from their sins and consequences of them; namely death. Think about it….. If Hell is real, why does Psalm 22 (one of the most prophetic passages in scripture) promise that " All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD , and all the families of the nations will worship before You. For the kingdom is the LORD'S and He rules over the nations. All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship , all those who go down to the dust will bow before Him, even he who cannot keep his soul alive " (Psalm 22:27-29 NASB). If Hell is real, did Yochanan via Y'Hoshea fail in His mission? He said, "I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world" (John 12:47). If Hell is real and most find their way to it, was Yochanan via Y'Hoshea lying when He said if He was lifted up that He would "draw" ("drag" in the original Greek word, "helkyo") all mankind unto Himself? (John 12:32) If Hell is real and eternal, how can the Scriptures speak of the gathering of all things into Christ? (Eph. 1:10) If Hell is real and eternal, how can all things be subdued unto Christ? (1 Corinthians 15:28, Philippians 3:21, Hebrews 2:8). If Hell is real and eternal, how can it be that the scriptures promise that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Isaiah 45:19-24 is true ? 19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right. 20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save. 21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. 24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. If Hell is real and eternal, how will Yisrael ever see the travail of His soul and be satisfied (Isaiah 53:11)? If the traditional understanding is correct, most of those He came to save will never experience His salvation. Do we believe that this would be satisfying to G~d? If Hell is real, and G~d sent "Jesus" to save people from it, can we really say that the will and pleasure of G~d has prospered in His hand, since, according to traditional theology, only a few will ever be saved? (Isaiah 53:10, and 55:11). If Hell is real, and the devil is the one who deceives people into going there, isn't he ultimately the winner in the war for souls? After all, traditional interpretation of the Bible says that more people will end up in Hell than in Heaven. If so, how can we really call Satan the defeated enemy and Christ the victor? If Hell is real and most of mankind will remain in an eternal deathlike state of torment with no chance to repent or escape? If Hell is eternal, how can the increase of G~d's government and of peace have no end? (Isaiah 9:7). FACT: The term "saved" has evolved in Christianity to mean something different than it did to the original readers and hearers of Scripture. The Greek words, "sozo" and "soteria" embrace the broad meaning of being rescued, delivered, healed and saved from danger. These words were applied in a variety of ways throughout the Apostolic Writings. There is much more to salvation than most Christians know. Sadly, much of the church is robbed of fullness of their salvation by embracing a limited and futuristic view of what it actually means-- (i.e. "going to Heaven when they die"). Popular Myth: "Eternity" is a theme that is throughout the entire Bible, including eternal punishment. Not exactly true! We are not denying that the Apostolic Writings is full of warnings of judgment, and that the words, "everlasting" and "eternal" appear often in most translations. However, a careful study of the words that are translated to mean forever or everlasting, will prove that they have been mistranslated. The question is not whether or not G~d will punish sin and rebellion, but rather how He does it, and for what purpose and how long the correcion lasts.[/quote] [quote]"[size=4]Hell" Was Not a Doctrine of the Early Church: Popular myth: Universalism was recently introduced to Christianity in the 1800's as the church became more liberal and modern and began to abandon their true biblical foundation. This is not true! A belief in the restitution of all things was a standard view in the early church, held by the majority of early Christians. It has also been held by a minority throughout all of church history even during the Dark Ages. Think about it…… If Hell was real, why did the first comparatively complete systematic statement of Christian doctrine ever given to the world by Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 180, contain the tenet of universal salvation? If Hell was real, why did the first complete presentation of Christianity (Origen, 220 A.D.) contain the doctrine of universal salvation? If Hell was real, why do neither the Apostles Creed, nor the Nicean Creed, two foundational "doctrinal statements" for the early church, contain the concept of Hell? If Hell was real, why did Church leaders as late as the fourth century AD acknowledge that the majority of Christians believed in the salvation of all mankind? If Hell was real why did the early church appoint an avowed universalist as the President of the second council of the church of Constantinople in the fourth century? (Gregory Nazianzen, 325-381). If Hell was real why did not a single Church council for the first five hundred years condemn Universalism as heresy considering the fact that they made many declarations of heresy on other teachings? If Hell was real why didn't Epiphanius (c. 315-403) the "hammer of heretics" who listed 80 heresies of his time not list universalism among those heresies? If Hell was real, since most historians would acknowledge today that Origen was perhaps the most outstanding example of universalism in the church, when Methodius, Eusibius, Pamphilus, Marcellus, Eustathius, and Jerome made their lists of Origen's heresies, why wasn't universalism among them? If Hell was real and found in the original Greek manuscripts of the Bible, why is it that it was primarily those church leaders who either couldn't read Greek (For example, Minucius Felix and Tertullian), or hated Greek as in the case of Augustine, that the doctrine of Hell was advocated? Those early church leaders familiar with the Greek and Hebrew saw universal salvation in those texts. Those who advocated Hell got it from the Latin, not from the Hebrew. Who would more likely be correct--those who could read the original language of the Bible or those who read a Latin translation made by one man (Jerome)? If Hell was real then why did four out of six theological schools from 170 AD to 430 AD teach universal salvation while the only one that taught Hell was in Carthage, Africa, again were Latin was the teaching language, not Greek? If Hell was real and a serious heresy, why was it not until the sixth century when Justinian, a half-pagan emperor, tried to make universalism a heresy? Interestingly, most historians will acknowledge that Justinian's reign was among the most cruel and ruthless[/size].[/quote] In my opinion Rabbi Quinn has raised many important points in this and in other of his writings that I take very seriously....Oh...and no...the Aquarian Gospel does not teach that Jesus had a human father.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tate4242 Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 [quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1423771' date='Nov 22 2007, 08:18 PM']I don't know about the compatibility of being a Catholic and being a member of PETA -- but I DO know that [b]being a moral relativist is NOT compatible with Catholicism.[/b] And you might be right in that a Democratic government could be of some benefit concerning animal rights issues, but [b]consider how the vast majority of our Democratic politicians destroy the rights of the unborn.[/b] The GOP has some bad apples in the barrel as well. Things like abortion and euthanasia are non negotiables when it comes to voting as a Catholic, whether it's Democrat or Republican. And I don't think the writings of Matthew Fox are very enriching for one's faith as a Catholic, either. His work is new age garbage and far from authentic, true Catholicism. I think Teresa of Avila, Hildegard of Bingen and John of the Cross would be better if you're looking for solid works on Catholic mysticism, and the life of St. Francis or writings by John Paul and Benedict XVI on living as a Catholic and steward of the earth and God's creatures. I hope that doesn't all come across as harsh but I say these concerning life as a Catholic in full communion and faithfulness with the church. I sponsored a very close friend who joined the church with heterodox ideas that weren't fully confronted and this lead to problems later on. Peace and God bless you![/quote] Shalom 'Ash Wednesday': I completely agree with you on your comments regarding abortion and I would absolutely love to see your further elabortion on this message thread: [url="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tate4CentralNova/message/4"]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tate4CentralNova/message/4[/url] MP Peter Mackay. Did you become pro-Choice based on misleading statistics? [quote]Dear Mr. Minister Mackay: When I heard you speak at the 2006 federal debate held at Pictou Campus of NSCC I was certainly impressed. I was in basic agreement with perhaps seventy percent of the statements that you made. Honorable Minister, one important position on which I vehemently disagree with you Sir is that you stated that you were pro-Choice on the issue of abortion. I plan to run against you as an independent candidate in the upcoming federal election. Winning would of course be the best possible outcome but a close second would be to see you Mr. Mackay reconsider all the new information available and adopt a strong pro-Life stance. I suspect that you may have decided to be pro-Choice based on thoroughly misleading but impressive statistics that abortion advocates casually spout. "How many women died from illegal abortions? The head of one of the major pro-abortion organizations in the U.S. said: "In 1972 there were 1,000,000 illegal abortions and 5,000 to 10,000 women died from them." True? Or False?" (abortionfacts.com) The example of what has happened in Poland between the years 1990 to 1994 is of and by itself sufficient reason to abandon your pro-Choice stance! [url="http://www.abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_27.asp"]http://www.abortionfacts.com/online_books/...hem_both_27.asp[/url] "I’d still worry that if you forbid abortion, it will just go back to back-alley butchery and lots of mothers dying." "We’ve had an example of an entire nation in recent years. It was Poland. Under Communist rule in the ’80s, there were consistently over 100,000 abortions registered each year as compared to about 600,000 births. With the establishment of some self-government in 1990, with both the Church and doctors discouraging abortion, the numbers fell to 59,400. Let’s list the 1990 figures and then look ahead to 1994, the second year after abortion was forbidden except for danger to the life or health of the mother, rape and fetal handicap. 1990 Total abortions 59,417 Women’s deaths connected with pregnancy 90 Miscarriages 59,454 Cases of infanticide 31 Births 546,000 1994 Total abortions 782 Women’s deaths connected with pregnancy 57 Miscarriages 49,970 Cases of infanticide 17 Births 482,000 "During this time the number of registered abortions declined to 176th of what it had been, and there was not a single death due to illegal abortion. All of these figures are exactly opposite of what International Planned Parenthood people in Poland predicted when the restrictive law was passed." At this site if you will click on link 14 - "Fetal Pain" you will certain see another good reason to become an anti-abortion candidate. Powerful evidence suggests that unborn babies experience pain AT ONLY EIGHT WEEKS! Thank you for your consideration of this matter and I look forward to the honor of discussing this question further with you at the debate. Kind regards. Dennis Tate[/quote] Somebody on this forum gave me this excellent link tht I use in this message... Please send me more....and more....aND MORE as i think you alredy know....MP Peter Mackay is very much a real political leader...who might well be Prime Minister of Canada some day soon....and he could sure use every prayer that is offered in his direction.... You can see his photo here...and for any single Catholic girls on this forum...Mr. Mackay is considered by some to be the most eligible bachelor in Canada: [url="http://www.petermackay.ca/"]http://www.petermackay.ca/[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tate4242 Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 [quote name='Pontifex' post='1423896' date='Nov 23 2007, 10:32 AM']When God is absent man is absent as well. Our culture has lost sight of God. The upsurge of animal protection is the result of a culture that is not able to see itself correctly. When we lose sight of God, we forget what it is to be human. Satan would love nothing more than for us to lower ourselves to the level of pure animal. In fact, we are placing ourselves below the level of animals for certainly most species of animals have the sense enough not to kill their own children. What an absolute poverty that we can spend so much money for animal rights while a young pregnant mother has hardly any resources when she needs help. (I say that to the shame of republicans and democrats.) Along those lines, let us make sure that if we support a pro-life candidate that we also make sure that provision is made for the unwed mother as well. (off topic, vent, had to be said) I love my dog, but he ain't going to heaven and if I ever get hungry enough he will be dinner. Thx, Pontifex[/quote] [quote]I think you'd find much discussion on the subject of PETA and the tactics they use and the Catholic view. Bottom line: In no way is a human on the same level as an animal.[/quote] I consider these to be good honest comments...but i am reminded of this verse: [quote]If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you [of] heavenly things?[/quote] (John 3) it is interesting that some people who report a near death experience state that they met former pets during their OBE/nde: [url="http://www.near-death.com/experiences/animals01.html"]http://www.near-death.com/experiences/animals01.html[/url] In the Psalms it states something to the effect that Mashiach/Messiah will return to the earth on a cherub.....in the apoclypse it talks about Messiah coming on a white horse...could YHWH..the G-d of abraham invent angelic life forms in the shape of animals? If indeed Jesus rides returns riding a cherub....Could the cherub Christ rides on look like a horse? If the topic of untum nuclear physics was brought up...who do you think would give the best disserttion on the subject....1. you? 2. me? 3. Dr. Stephen Hwking? 4. the horse/cherub on which Messiah rides? If I were a betting man my money would be on the horse.... But...I do agree tht the Christian who is willing to barbecue his dog in a time of extreme famine...is getting in touch with what Jesus/Yahushua may have ment by putting judgement...even before mercy and faith.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tate4242 Posted November 24, 2007 Author Share Posted November 24, 2007 [quote name='Dreamweaver' post='1424018' date='Nov 23 2007, 04:14 PM']While speaking out and acting against animal abuse and cruelty is admirable, I don't support the tactics and methods that PETA uses. They support harassment, to outright [url="http://www.animalscam.com/peta_7things.cfm"]vandalism and terrorism[/url]. I'd recommend volunteering for ASPCA or a local animal shelter instead. That, and I've never met a steak or ham sandwich I didn't like. ;)[/quote] You certainly do have a good point here. I do not support vandalism and terrorism...but I do understand why they are willing to resort to these sort of tactics. I believe that what they are doing is similar to an anti-abortion advocate who gets so extreme that they may blow up an empty abortion clinic after hours. I do not agree with this tactic...but I would personally compare what is being done to unborn babies to what the Nazi regime did to the Jewish people...and therefore I do believe that when it comes to the afterlife an anti-abortion activist who bombed an empty clinic...will be treated very differently than Claus Barbie, or the Uni-bomber, or a Ted Bundy...the person who goes to an extreme to do good...may be unwise...they may be wrong...but in their meeting with Jesus/Yahushua or with the Being of Light who interviews people as they approach death and often asks them something to the effect of: "What did you do with your life that you can show me?"...I believe that the Being of Light will have an entirely different reaction to Ingrid Newkirk, an anti-abortion activist....than He will have with a Ted Bundy type of person! (for the record I am not usually quite this bad at spelling but my keyboard at home is broken so I have no letters a, z, q, A, Z, Q or !. Wow, it is nice be here at the Library for a few moments to be on high speed!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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