Indicted Life Teen Founder "resigns" From Priesthood,

[esmith818]

[quote name='Noel's angel' post='1442124' date='Jan 4 2008, 07:08 PM']Why do we need 'LIFE TEEN MASSES'?? Is the Mass that the Church has given us not enough?[/quote]

Sure, but Jesus didn't sit in the temple all day and expect the people to come to Him. He went out and met them on their turf and then led them back to Himself.

That is the model upon which LIFE TEEN builds. The goal is to meet the teens on their level, thus the more modern music and homilies made more applicable to their lifestyle. Any youth minister following the program [b]as it was designed[/b] will tell you that if a teen does not seek out Christ in the standard Mass format after high school, the adult volunteers did not do their job correctly.

To suggest that the "normal" Mass should be enough is silly. If it were fine, why did Vatican II decree that the Mass should be said in the local language? Isn't Christ enough? Why do some Catholics choose which Mass they attend based on which priest will be giving the homily? Why do some choose a Mass with no music, or a Mass with a children's choir, or a parish with a smaller congregation? All these factors allow us to attend a Mass that speaks to us in a unique way in which we can grow closer to God -- a way for Christ to approach us in our own comfort zone.

Assuming the LIFE TEEN Mass is adhering to the liturgical norms (a factor that the national program supports whether or not the local parish adheres to), then it is just as "normal" as any other Mass celebrated that weekend.

Quit complaining that because the Mass doesn't "do it" for you, it must not be a normal or acceptable Mass.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='esmith818' post='1449101' date='Jan 21 2008, 08:53 PM']...
Quit complaining that because the Mass doesn't "do it" for you, it must not be a normal or acceptable Mass. [/quote]
Despite what you just said, that seems to be a double standard on your part.

[esmith818]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1449108' date='Jan 21 2008, 10:17 PM']Despite what you just said, that seems to be a double standard on your part.[/quote]
How so? Jesus is Jesus despite the extra smells and bells of any particular Mass.

People are posting about the how it's wrong for a Mass to cater to one group or another. If a certain style of Mass doesn't meet one's personal opinion of how a Mass should be celebrated, that doesn't make it wrong to celebrate in that style assuming it meets all the liturgical norms.

I'll admit that I prefer the more traditional music myself and can't wait for the Latin Mass to be offered in my diocese, but I can also see the large number of teens over the past several years who credit LIFE TEEN with making them more interested and secure in their faith.

[jeffpugh]

Fair enough.

[Deo Iuvente]

[quote name='esmith818' post='1449101' date='Jan 21 2008, 09:53 PM']To suggest that the "normal" Mass should be enough is silly.[/quote] Yeah ,I mean, what's so engaging about the eternal son of the father offering himself in holy sacrifice to the father, re-presenting to us the same sacrifce he offered on calvary. Cjrist the king veiling his glory in humility ,yet being substantially present under the appearnce of bread and wine [i]definitely[/i] should'nt be abough to get other teens to go to mass.
[quote]If it were fine, why did Vatican II decree that the Mass should be said in the local language?[/quote] It was more like [i]could[/i] be said in the local language. They wanted everyone to say the responses in latin, and preserve latin in the liturgy)Musicam sacram elaborates on this,[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/LITURGY/VENDLATN.TXT"]
[quote]Isn't Christ enough? Why do some Catholics choose which Mass they attend based on which priest will be giving the homily? Why do some choose a Mass with no music, or a Mass with a children's choir, or a parish with a smaller congregation? All these factors allow us to attend a Mass that speaks to us in a unique way in which we can grow closer to God -- a way for Christ to approach us in our own comfort zone.[/quote] Because a lot of catholics are sadly poorly catechized and don't realize that the mass isn't about them. It isn't about how it makes them feel,it isn't about their comfort zone.

[quote]Assuming the LIFE TEEN Mass is adhering to the liturgical norms (a factor that the national program supports whether or not the local parish adheres to), then it is just as "normal" as any other Mass celebrated that weekend.

Quit complaining that because the Mass doesn't "do it" for you, it must not be a normal or acceptable Mass. [/quote]
Whether or not fidelity to the rubrics and proper liturgical practice is supported is almost irrelevant when discussing it. The fact is, in practice,many are celebrated irreverently with little or no regard to the rubrics in the missal. They just get ignored to facilitate creativity, on the premise that this somehow helps participation in the mass. Do celebrations of the mass in this manner [i]really [/i] reflect the church's understanding of the nature of the mass? Do they convey externally what occurs spiritually,or in unobserved reality?Does it scream "this is the visit of a king, the sacrifice of the redeemer."or does it convey some other though or emotion? This has nothing to do with whether or not it helps people feel good, it's still the tradition of the church that the mass should be celebrated in a manner that tells people what happens. A normal mass is one that follows all the rubrics and liturgical law of the church. That's not my opinion, Redemptionis Sacramentum and Inter Oecumenici say so. The real question is, do lifeteen masses really adhere to the norms,or did the Congregation for Divine Worship have to tell them to chill out with the abuses?

[Mercy me]

[quote name='Deo Iuvente' post='1449130' date='Jan 21 2008, 10:43 PM']Because a lot of catholics are sadly poorly catechized and don't realize that the mass isn't about them. It isn't about how it makes them feel,it isn't about their comfort zone.[/quote]

You hit the nail square on the head when you say that a lot of Catholics are poorly catechized. But what so many fail to realize is that when people are poorly catechized you have to go where they are to reach them.

[jeffpugh]

You mean reach them at the abuses?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Deo Iuvente' post='1449130' date='Jan 21 2008, 10:43 PM']The real question is, do lifeteen masses really adhere to the norms,or did the Congregation for Divine Worship have to tell them to chill out with the abuses?[/quote]

That, like in any other parish, depends on the particular Mass.

[esmith818]

[quote name='Deo Iuvente' post='1449130' date='Jan 21 2008, 10:43 PM']Yeah ,I mean, what's so engaging about the eternal son of the father offering himself in holy sacrifice to the father, re-presenting to us the same sacrifce he offered on calvary. Cjrist the king veiling his glory in humility ,yet being substantially present under the appearnce of bread and wine [i]definitely[/i] should'nt be abough to get other teens to go to mass.[/quote]
Agreed. And the source and summit of the LIFE TEEN Mass is the same as that of every other Mass: Jesus Christ -- body, blood, soul and divinity -- in the Eucharist.

[quote name='Deo Iuvente' post='1449130' date='Jan 21 2008, 10:43 PM']Because a lot of catholics are sadly poorly catechized and don't realize that the mass isn't about them. It isn't about how it makes them feel,it isn't about their comfort zone.[/quote]
Agreed. You show me a model Catholic who understands this truth, and I'll show you how that Catholic became who he or she is from a unique encounter they had with Christ. Likely something different than your initial moment of "confirmation."

[quote name='Deo Iuvente' post='1449130' date='Jan 21 2008, 10:43 PM']The fact is, in practice,many are celebrated irreverently with little or no regard to the rubrics in the missal. They just get ignored to facilitate creativity, on the premise that this somehow helps participation in the mass.[/quote]
Agreed. You don't know how annoyed I get when the priest encourages the faithful to hold hands for the Lord's prayer. And that's not the LIFE TEEN Mass.

[quote name='Deo Iuvente' post='1449130' date='Jan 21 2008, 10:43 PM']A normal mass is one that follows all the rubrics and liturgical law of the church. That's not my opinion, Redemptionis Sacramentum and Inter Oecumenici say so.[/quote]
Agreed. And one sign of a good ministry is one that is obedient when asked to make changes. Thanks goodness that LIFE TEEN changed several aspects of the Mass to be in line with the rubrics when its mistakes were pointed out.

[quote name='Deo Iuvente' post='1449130' date='Jan 21 2008, 10:43 PM']do lifeteen masses really adhere to the norms,or did the Congregation for Divine Worship have to tell them to chill out with the abuses?[/quote]
They do now (and for the past few years since the liturgical norms were re-issued). I still see some parishes where the norms are not adhered to, both in a LIFE TEEN Mass or in a "standard" Novus Ordo. Let's both pray for those parishes.

Edited January 22, 2008 by esmith818

[stbernardLT]

Obviously Fushek did damages to the Body of Christ besisdes Liturgical abuses. Now that he and Phil Baniswicz (whatever his name is) are out of the way LIFE TEEN has become something different. Mark Hart the new president is doing an unbelievable job. He is sound in theology and the understanding of the sacraments. The new material they are putting out is 100% accurate in theology and a lot more educational based. I have both the old stuff and the new stuff. They actually used the theme "rediscovering the sacred" after Fushek was gone.

Lets look at how God is working.

LIFE TEEN has set up a foundation of about 20 + years of youth ministry. Though that foundation has been a bit sketchy like so many other aspects of the church over the last few decades.

Once the bishops cracked down on the abuses, Fushek and Phil get derailed because of the scandals.

New leaders inherit a strong base to do good ministry and they are doing just that.

Now that our young priest are bringing new reverence and life to the church, it will only be a matter of time until these singular liturgical abuses based on the OLD LIFE TEEN model disappear.

LIFE TEEN is changing just as our church is. Praise God. He has made lemonade with lemons. (or saints with sinners)

The phatmass crew should get to know the new LIFE TEEN guys. I think phatmass would be impressed with their love for the Church and its traditions. That would be one dynamic team up, phatmass and life teen.

[jeffpugh]

I like lemons


So will they be introducing Latin into LIFETEEN? How about some sacred music instead of religious music?

[stbernardLT]

Please pick up some life teen materials before you say these things. In many of there new resources there is latin, especially when they do educational topics. They actually did a teaching on the epiclesis (though I know that is greek). When they talk about the mass they used terms like "ex opera operato" and "ex opera operantis". It is there, you just haven't looked. There theme for 2008 is "Consumed by Grace" a look at the sacraments through the eyes of Mary. This is good catholic stuff.

As far as the music. Since Matt Maher has taken over the lead music roll from Tom Booth. There has been a more sacred approach. In fact his last mass parts put out did have latin through out. Did it have chants and organs, no, but nonetheless this is a step in the right direction.

Please get the actual info about what is coming from the LIFE TEEN headquarters before you assume things.

[jeffpugh]

I assumed nothing. Just asked. Thanks for the info.

Just a side comment, people like to throw organ in as an article of "traditional means". I know some don't mean it as a way of covering things up, but I must warn that the organ does not convey a traditional means unless the music produced from such an instrument is done skillfully, and is Catholic Sacred music in the first place. I've heard some pretty 60s ish stuff come from a nice organ, and that really ticks me off cause it's tasteless. No wonder young people don't care for the instrument if it's being punished wrongly with banal music.