Indicted Life Teen Founder "resigns" From Priesthood,

[Guest Perpetualove]

Been a Youth Minister a long time. Never liked Life Teen. Not even a little bit. Wish I could say I'm surprised by all this, but I am not. This guy fits the criteria for classic text-book cultic behavior. I don't know anything about the sexual abuse, and I wish we would stop putting the Church in a position of scandal, and far be it for me to throw the first stone. I have spent a long time trying to get Youth Ministers educated about Life Teen. Life Teen is about a systematic forumula, and unfortunately, these systems don't work. One must leave room for the Holy Spirit and the individual soul. Canned programs, teen centered Masses and videos don't cut it. Confirmation was moved into a parish setting so community could be created. Community cannot be created to the exclusion of others...those of you ready to object...think about it for a second, and use your critical minds. How would feel about a Mass for old women? For gay men? For fathers only? For the oldest daughters of three kids? For dog owners? You would object, though obviously, in various times, places and situations, special Masses have been offered for special individualized groups (i.e., kids who go to Catholic schools, Mom's day of prayer - ending in Mass, Healing Mass for People with AIDS, etc...) A good parish welcomes all - poor, rich, young, old, sick, healthy. Married, single and religious. Those struggling and those doing okay. I know for a fact that kids do not need to be entertained, or separated, or treated like idiots. You give them sacred music, a place on the altar, and they will rise to the occasion. Groups that are run by singular, popular, charasmatic leaders such as the person we are discussing, it is a quick step from a group into a cult. Those of you who want more information, read Margaret Singer's Cults In Our Midst. Don't flame me, this is my educated opinion.

[Seven77]

[quote name='PopeClementI(MorClemis)' post='1425279' date='Nov 26 2007, 06:38 PM']Who said that? You can worship in your house, but that is not a replacement for the Divine Liturgy, aka Mass.
This center's worship is basically equivalent to praying in your house or when you say grace before a meal, nothing wrong with either of those two, unless someone thinks that their home prayer is enough and Mass is therefore unnecessary.[/quote]

Good post. Now, does the Msgr. think that his [i]home prayer [/i] is enough and Mass is therefore unnecessary?

People...do we [u]know[/u] if he thinks that?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1425174' date='Nov 26 2007, 02:47 PM']I'm stunned. You see nothing wrong with a priest starting up a non-denominational church?

Wow. Just.... wow.[/quote]

I'm not saying that at all.

I wasn't aware that it was a non-denominational church. There's nothing wrong with starting an organization that gets together in an ecumenical setting to praise God. As far as I know, he didn't say it was a church, didn't announce any sort of schism or dissension from the Church, didn't say it would fulfill any obligations. Many Catholics have started praise and worship apostolates and opened them to ecumenical settings. I don't see how a person could accuse any of them of starting a non-denominational church.

Did he call it a "church" or did others just start calling it that? The original article only seems to call it a "center." I don't think that indicates that he or anyone else involved intends for it to be a "church."

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Perpetualove' post='1425567' date='Nov 27 2007, 02:13 AM']I have spent a long time trying to get Youth Ministers educated about Life Teen. Life Teen is about a systematic forumula, and unfortunately, these systems don't work.[/quote]

I don't agree with your point that systematic catechesis doesn't work. The Catholic Church demands that catechesis be systematic. While we do certainly need to leave room for the Holy Spirit, we cannot fail to do our part to use systems and progressive lessons to advance youth ministry.

That said, LifeTeen's system isn't for everyone, myself included.

[inDEED]

[quote name='Perpetualove' post='1425567' date='Nov 27 2007, 12:13 AM']Been a Youth Minister a long time. Never liked Life Teen. Not even a little bit. Wish I could say I'm surprised by all this, but I am not. This guy fits the criteria for classic text-book cultic behavior. I don't know anything about the sexual abuse, and I wish we would stop putting the Church in a position of scandal, and far be it for me to throw the first stone. I have spent a long time trying to get Youth Ministers educated about Life Teen. Life Teen is about a systematic forumula, and unfortunately, these systems don't work. One must leave room for the Holy Spirit and the individual soul. Canned programs, teen centered Masses and videos don't cut it. Confirmation was moved into a parish setting so community could be created. Community cannot be created to the exclusion of others...those of you ready to object...think about it for a second, and use your critical minds. How would feel about a Mass for old women? For gay men? For fathers only? For the oldest daughters of three kids? For dog owners? You would object, though obviously, in various times, places and situations, special Masses have been offered for special individualized groups (i.e., kids who go to Catholic schools, Mom's day of prayer - ending in Mass, Healing Mass for People with AIDS, etc...) A good parish welcomes all - poor, rich, young, old, sick, healthy. Married, single and religious. Those struggling and those doing okay. I know for a fact that kids do not need to be entertained, or separated, or treated like idiots. You give them sacred music, a place on the altar, and they will rise to the occasion. Groups that are run by singular, popular, charasmatic leaders such as the person we are discussing, it is a quick step from a group into a cult. Those of you who want more information, read Margaret Singer's Cults In Our Midst. Don't flame me, this is my educated opinion.[/quote]

First off - I just want to THANK YOU for your service to the Church. I know that being a Youth Minister means working in an often thankless atmosphere for very little pay. THANK YOU for doing all you do for Christ's young people.

While I certainly agree with your comments regarding "cultic" behavior and Monsignor's position as Pastor, I couldn't disagree more about the actual LIFETEEN program. Like I stated before, I've seen the program in action - I've been involved with the program - and, it's quite a blessing for our young people.

As far as having a "teen" Mass, I also have to disagree with you. At every Church I've attended, there have been services for teens, children, the deaf, Spanish Masses, etc. There are definitely parameters within the Mass that allow for changes in music, the homily, and so forth.

[Wolfie]

[quote name='Perpetualove' post='1425567' date='Nov 27 2007, 02:13 AM']Been a Youth Minister a long time. Never liked Life Teen. Not even a little bit. Wish I could say I'm surprised by all this, but I am not. This guy fits the criteria for classic text-book cultic behavior. I don't know anything about the sexual abuse, and I wish we would stop putting the Church in a position of scandal, and far be it for me to throw the first stone. I have spent a long time trying to get Youth Ministers educated about Life Teen. Life Teen is about a systematic forumula, and unfortunately, these systems don't work. One must leave room for the Holy Spirit and the individual soul. Canned programs, teen centered Masses and videos don't cut it. Confirmation was moved into a parish setting so community could be created. Community cannot be created to the exclusion of others...those of you ready to object...think about it for a second, and use your critical minds. How would feel about a Mass for old women? For gay men? For fathers only? For the oldest daughters of three kids? For dog owners? You would object, though obviously, in various times, places and situations, special Masses have been offered for special individualized groups (i.e., kids who go to Catholic schools, Mom's day of prayer - ending in Mass, Healing Mass for People with AIDS, etc...) A good parish welcomes all - poor, rich, young, old, sick, healthy. Married, single and religious. Those struggling and those doing okay. I know for a fact that kids do not need to be entertained, or separated, or treated like idiots. You give them sacred music, a place on the altar, and they will rise to the occasion. Groups that are run by singular, popular, charasmatic leaders such as the person we are discussing, it is a quick step from a group into a cult. Those of you who want more information, read Margaret Singer's Cults In Our Midst. Don't flame me, this is my educated opinion.[/quote]

The Catholic Church has approved the Lifeteen program. They approve and ENCOURAGE youth Masses, especially as a model of youth ministry. JPII said himself that the youth are a seperate culture.

[prose]

[quote name='Perpetualove' post='1425567' date='Nov 27 2007, 01:13 AM']Been a Youth Minister a long time. Never liked Life Teen. Not even a little bit. Wish I could say I'm surprised by all this, but I am not. This guy fits the criteria for classic text-book cultic behavior. I don't know anything about the sexual abuse, and I wish we would stop putting the Church in a position of scandal, and far be it for me to throw the first stone. I have spent a long time trying to get Youth Ministers educated about Life Teen. Life Teen is about a systematic forumula, and unfortunately, these systems don't work. One must leave room for the Holy Spirit and the individual soul. Canned programs, teen centered Masses and videos don't cut it. Confirmation was moved into a parish setting so community could be created. Community cannot be created to the exclusion of others...those of you ready to object...think about it for a second, and use your critical minds. How would feel about a Mass for old women? For gay men? For fathers only? For the oldest daughters of three kids? For dog owners? You would object, though obviously, in various times, places and situations, special Masses have been offered for special individualized groups (i.e., kids who go to Catholic schools, Mom's day of prayer - ending in Mass, Healing Mass for People with AIDS, etc...) A good parish welcomes all - poor, rich, young, old, sick, healthy. Married, single and religious. Those struggling and those doing okay. I know for a fact that kids do not need to be entertained, or separated, or treated like idiots. You give them sacred music, a place on the altar, and they will rise to the occasion. Groups that are run by singular, popular, charasmatic leaders such as the person we are discussing, it is a quick step from a group into a cult. Those of you who want more information, read Margaret Singer's Cults In Our Midst. Don't flame me, this is my educated opinion.[/quote]

I have also been a youth minister for years. I am well educated with my degree in psychology. (since we are throwing around "credentials") I met the current head of LifeTeen Mark Hart, I have talked to him about the program. The root is simple: Bring Youth to the Church. Period. Anything outside of that is what has been misused and misconstrued from the program. I think this program is great where it works. It isn't a program that I have chosen, but that is a personal choice that I made based on what I see the needs of my current parish.

In every LifeTeen Mass I have attended, the youth are encouraged to attend WITH THEIR FAMILIES, as the community is ALWAYS welcomed.

Youth groups are often run by charismatic leaders. Often these are the people who are drawn to these careers. It is a blessing to be charismatic, not a curse. The former LT guy is a nut and has misused his gifts, but that in no way makes LifeTeen a cult (which seems to be what you are implying).

The core of the issue comes down to the fact that the Catholic Church has APPROVED this movement, whether you or I personally like it or not.

[quote name='Raphael' post='1425654' date='Nov 27 2007, 10:36 AM']Did he call it a "church" or did others just start calling it that?[/quote]

Everyone here just started calling it that.

[TradMom]

[color="#0000FF"][font="Century Gothic"][i]Dear All,

Praise be Jesus Christ the King; now and forever!

As you will see, this is my first answer to any of the posts here at Phatmass, though I have been an avid "lurker" for quite some time. As my "new name" indicates, I am a mother, traditional and in full communion with Rome. I have seven children, one on the way, and a daughter that just entered a Carmel. (Pray for her; and for us. Our first Christmas without her, and we are having pangs of holy loss!) I'm sure you can all imagine that my children are homeschooled. (Not a hard guess, is it?)

I found that necessary to share because of our home schooling life, my children did find it necessary to engage in Religious Education programs in order to receive the Holy Sacraments. We attended three separate parishes in which LifeTeen was used, and sadly, I took my children out of each parish.

I agree with Perpetualove's comments, which one person - I believe - misunderstood. She was not discussing systematic theology, but a "cultic system" - two very different things. Unlike our Church, and our own experience of Faith - wherein we find logic, truth, beauty and theology intertwined, building upon each other, and fitting together in order to progress to the next step or depth (think of St. Teresa's method of prayer, or St. Ignatius' for that matter), cults do the opposite. They bombard the new members with love, unconditional acceptance and overwhelming activities; and within their cultic system of thought reform, the individual ceases to think critically. Also, not every cult is bad, negative or destructive. Off the top of my head, I can think of groups that certainly fall within the definition of cult, and yet, are not destructive. I am willing to believe that at one point, the leader of LifeTeen had good intentions and created out a way to bring young people into the church. Many of the fallen priests, and Protestant ministers who found themselves popular and charismatic found the lure of fame, power and attention too much. Sadly, I am not surprised that this would have happened to the founder of the LifeTeen program as well. These material things are very hard to deny and walk away from.

Yes, whoever said that LifeTeen encourages all to attend - you are right. But it is clearly a Teen Mass. The Youth Ministers/Confirmation Directors I tried to work with in bringing my children to church invited me. But they also made it very clear this idea of a separate "teen culture" is real. This idea is one in which I believe - just personally, I believe this! - is a negative and sad reflection on our times.

I will tell you why. I have raised one beautiful daughter that chose Carmel in the prime of her beauty and youth. I have raised another daughter considering that option as well - and whether she finds her place in a Monastery, or as a single woman or as a mother, the fact that she is even open to such a life makes my heart swell with love and pride. My sons have worked for Habitat for Humanity and take care - with me - of the younger ones. We say the Family Rosary every night, we have a home altar and take turns decorating it according to the seasons. My husband's sister has MS and she lives with us, and again, we all take turns taking care of her, driving her to appointments, helping her eat, bathing her (the girls, obviously) and helping her get through the day. (How much easier it would be to just put her in a hospital, pay for it! and claim her demanding presence is hurting our "family culture!") When we vacation, we do so together. We pray together, eat together, and are together. When I discovered, somewhat as a surprise, that I was pregnant, my family rejoiced! We all know, only too well, that the new baby will bring challenges and weariness, and yet, we all know this new little one has a place already in the family's heart. We have done novenas together, we have attended concerts together, and we do arts together. Does this make you sick? It does my friends. I have had one too many "friends" tell my husband and me that we are insane, smothering and overdoing it. My husband makes a good living, we have a nice house and can afford help, and yet, we believe in ora et labora; and our children, through our watchful eye and the grace of God, have worked and stayed out of trouble.

I have been told one too many times that my PhD has languished.

It hasn't. I studied sociology and destructive groups. I took classes under the author Perpetualove mentioned, Dr. Margaret Singer, RIP. I learned what makes a "group" healthy and whole, and how to build up for the long haul, not the short one. It is always dangerous to separate and declare something "different." It is always dangerous to have a group dependent upon a single founder or leader, charismatic or not. It is never a good idea to explain things away easily with one lines such as..."The Pope said so," or "This is how we do it." Our Faith, has never, ever - except in her darkest of days - encouraged or promoted black and white thinking. In cultic terms, this is called, "Doctrine Over Person," - this is why, in our Faith and Church, we have such a thing as pastoral care. A pastor, a priest, can make a pastoral decision that sometimes is out of the norm, for the good of the soul of the individual. We don't live by "doctrine over person," which cults do. Our collective culture - old, young, Spanish, White, sick, healthy - whatever - is linked by something our Faith encourages...called "critical thinking." This concept, of critical thinking (which destructive cults take away, by the way) is what can and should lead right into a good program of systematic theology. We have a history of our greatest saints asking questions, seeking, seeking, seeking...looking for answers and finding them. Sometimes. Sometimes our saints just lived without answers, and accepted the question as a mystery.

Every day I look at my sister in law and see her disease and I wonder why that happened to her. And so, I live with that mystery. Hearing, "God willed it," is not good enough because that doesn't answer the question. The answer, at this point, is a mystery, and I accept that - somedays easier than others - and I live with it.

My biggest problem with LifeTeen - and remember - I saw it in three different parishes - is that for me, it did not leave any room for the mysteries of life and faith. I saw a very controlled, very systematic - to borrow that word again - "organized" program. I don't want my children to be told how special and how different they are. I don't want them to hear about their "special culture." I want them to hear and know and believe they are part of God's big family, the incredible interwoven complex of life. I want them to know Jesus Christ, to experience the earth shattering holiness of the Eucharist, and to encounter our Catholic culture in all of its splendor! I want them to greet the Face of Christ in the poorest of the poor as they pass out food they made, and I want them to sit next to the screaming baby, the old man who smells and the young couple who can't keep their hands off each other. I want them to know that the child is God's beloved Child, the old man is Christ's most gentle Friend, and the young couple, the wedding couple from Cana. I want my children to embrace the Body of Christ fully and to know this doesn't come from a fun and wacky priest, or a cool nun, or a hip youth minister. It comes through the experience of encountering Christ, and this is impossible in an enclosed environment, whether it is called that or not. As I can tell you only too well, a family - like a good community - forces each individual to accept the other and to realize not all of our needs and wants and hopes and desires and whatever else is in there will be met at each moment. Sometimes Mass will be boring. Sometimes the Rosary will just fall out of our mouths without deep contemplation. Sometimes Holy Hour will seem like seven. And in each of those cases, sometimes not.

If I could give every young person something, it would be the chance to be involved in an intergenerational group. I would give each young person the opportunity to serve and the chance to see the holiness is someone they least expected it. I would invite them to a Mass done in a sacred hush, and I would watch their faces for the flicker of recognition that they are standing on holy ground.

And, finally, I would encourage all young people to take the path not taken. Just because a program has lots and lots and lots of numbers does not mean it is good or worthy or wonderful. Take a minute and think about how fast cults are growing in this country and how resistent so many of us are to say anything about that.

I apologize for going on and on and on. For those of you who made it to the end of this little lecture, I hear you breathing a sigh of relief you are not being homeschooled by me! I hear that!!!

And for the rest of you...I guess you know why I have been a "lurker" for so long! See what happens?

In the meantime, whether we like this poor priest or not, let us remember that his creation has brought many to the Church. Let us thank God for the good he has done, let us pray that the damage of his current actions will create a mere ripple across our sea. Let us pray for good, solid priestly vocations and let us remember that none of us are exempt from the lures and snares of the enemy, and finally, let us pray for his soul. For he remains a priest now and forever, and as surely as I sit here with life kicking within me, I know Our Lady in Heaven is crying over his lost vocation and the willful turn of his face away from the Beloved.

Finally...dear ones, pray for our daughter, our family, and the little one a month away!

Momma (as my youngest calls me!)[/i][/font][/color]

[Lil Red]

wow, awesome first post! you can post any time you want!!

[dUSt]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1425654' date='Nov 27 2007, 10:36 AM']Did he call it a "church" or did others just start calling it that?[/quote]
[quote name='prose' post='1425714' date='Nov 27 2007, 01:16 PM']Everyone here just started calling it that.[/quote]
Don't be deceived. I once attended a "non-denominational" church that didn't call itself a church, and it almost led me to abandon my Catholic faith.

Don't believe that this "worship center" is anything else other than that. Look past the fancy wording and disguised agenda and see it for exactly what it is... a non-catholic church, not in communion with Rome, that will reflect the personal views of it's leaders. Period. Let's not be foolish here.

[Seven77]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1425775' date='Nov 27 2007, 05:19 PM']Don't be deceived. I once attended a "non-denominational" church that didn't call itself a church, and it almost led me to abandon my Catholic faith.

Don't believe that this "worship center" is anything else other than that. Look past the fancy wording and disguised agenda and see it for exactly what it is... a non-catholic church, not in communion with Rome, that will reflect the personal views of it's leaders. Period. Let's not be foolish here.[/quote]

This is all in love brother---

What about 'by their fruits you shall know them"? What kind of fruit has the center produced? I mean how do you [i]know[/i]? Isn't it wiser right [i]now[/i] to pray for him and not accuse until proven?

About the man himself, wrongdoing or not, where is the fine line before crossing into detraction?

[dUSt]

[quote name='Seven77' post='1425805' date='Nov 27 2007, 05:02 PM']What about 'by their fruits you shall know them"?[/quote]
It's non-Catholic fruit.
[quote]What kind of fruit has the center produced?[/quote]
So far, just judging from the posts in this thread, very negative and misleading fruit.
[quote]I mean how do you [i]know[/i]?[/quote]
Well, a priest who removes "father" from his name and starts a non-Catholic worship center clued me in.
[quote]Isn't it wiser right [i]now[/i] to pray for him and not accuse until proven?[/quote]
No, I actually think it's already been proven, so I think praying [b]and[/b] warning right now is a great idea.
[quote]About the man himself, wrongdoing or not, where is the fine line before crossing into detraction?[/quote]
I think the line is clear, with Catholic on one side and not Catholic on the other.

[Seven77]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1425810' date='Nov 27 2007, 06:10 PM']I think praying [b]and[/b] warning right now is a great idea.[/quote]

Agreed.

To clarify...I've just gone to the center's website and found out that while it generally claims to be supplementary, "services" are to be held on Sundays. That would be confusing.

But I say to everyone: beware of committing detraction and "morose delectation" as Cappie pointed out...

Edited November 28, 2007 by Seven77

[inDEED]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1425775' date='Nov 27 2007, 02:19 PM']Don't be deceived. I once attended a "non-denominational" church that didn't call itself a church, and it almost led me to abandon my Catholic faith.

Don't believe that this "worship center" is anything else other than that. Look past the fancy wording and disguised agenda and see it for exactly what it is... a non-catholic church, not in communion with Rome, that will reflect the personal views of it's leaders. Period. Let's not be foolish here.[/quote]

I actually agree with you on these statements, dUSt.

[EJames2]

[quote name='EJames2' post='1424155' date='Nov 23 2007, 11:54 PM']Fushek said he started the nondenominational Praise and Worship Center as a place where people can come to worship between regular services, not as competition for the Catholic Church.
more>>
[url="http://closedcafeteria.blogspot.com/2007/11/life-teen-founder-starts-own-p-services.html"]http://closedcafeteria.blogspot.com/2007/1...p-services.html[/url][/quote]

FYI
i originally posted this, though all i knew of Lifeteen was an experience i had 8 Years ago in the USA, at a Eucharist i walked out of considering it illicit, and from a now good and Traditional young Monk, who credits his discovery of The faith , in Texas as a teen thru Lifeteen....just as i credit my discovey God as Father and Jesus as God, through/as an/the Evangelical Protestants, but i wouldnt recommend one should endorse and become an Ev. Protestant before coming Catholic...
anyways i didnt expect debate over praise and worship music. just was thinking it was news worthy that these 2 priests earlier on paradigm shift on Liturgy and Worship,and an 'its about me' attitude, has made them Protestants now.
PAX!
hmm i didnt realize he had a co-founder of the PraiseandWorshipCentre
"
[quote]Fushek founded the Life Teen program in 1985 and saw it grow to some 1,080 programs in 20 countries, involving 120,000 teens. He was actively involved in Valley visits of Pope John Paul II in 1987 and Mother Teresa in 1989, and was named vicar general in 2000 and a monsignor in 2002.

[b]The Praise and Worship Center’s co-founder, Dippre, was ordained a priest in 1992 and served as associate pastor at Our Lady of Mount Carmel parish in Tempe from 1992 to 1995 and as its pastor from 2000 to 2002.[/b]

He was also associate pastor under Fushek at St. Timothy’s from 1995 to 2000. [b]He resigned from the priesthood in 2002 and later married, according to diocesan records.
[/b]
Fushek did not respond to phone or e-mail requests for comment."
------------
[b]FR. SPAULDING, new pastor at St Timothy's says>>[/b]
“[u]As his friend for over 30 years[/u], and now as pastor of St. Tim’s, I say, with sadness, that I cannot, and do not, support him in this, and that the parish cannot and does not support him on this.” Spaulding was assigned to St. Timothy’s after Fushek was put on administrative leave.

Spaulding asked the parish to pray for Fushek “as I do daily for a just resolution to the criminal charges against him.” He called on the faithful to “continue to put the Holy Eucharist at the center of your lives.”

[u]“For us Catholics, Holy Mass is the ultimate form of praise and worship of God,” he said. “As Catholic Christians, we follow Christ and the church He established.”[/u]

The new praise center’s Web site (praiseandworshipcenter.net) touts its next two services, both on Sundays — Dec. 23 and Jan. 6, the fourth Sunday of Advent and Feast Day of Epiphany, significant days in the Catholic and Christian calendars. "
-
Lawn Griffiths
East Valley Tribune
November 27, 2007[/quote]
[url="http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/102824"]http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/102824[/url]
-
Seigneur a pitié
PAX!........

Edited November 28, 2007 by EJames2