Indicted Life Teen Founder "resigns" From Priesthood,

[inDEED]

[quote name='Seven77' post='1425853' date='Nov 27 2007, 04:18 PM']But I say to everyone: beware of committing detraction and "morose delectation" as Cappie pointed out...[/quote]

Amen.

[PopeClementI(MorClemis)]

TradMom,

Thank you for your insightful post. You've stated what I've been wanting to post without having the skills or vocabulary to write it. I hope to read more of what you write!

As an aside, did you have the opportunity to work on the DIMPAC task force with Dr. Singer? She must have been a very thorough and demanding preceptor, earning a PhD at 22 is quite a feat!

[vbbabespx]

LifeTeen has brought me back to the Church. It has made me fall in love with the Church again. At my Parish, the Lifeteen mass is open to everyone- old, young, familes, and single people. We experience everything. We have Benediction and Adoration. We go to reconciliation. We are invited to the front of the congregation- at the foot of the alter, during COnsecration. I think Lifeteen is excellent for teens in today's society.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='vbbabespx' post='1425969' date='Nov 27 2007, 08:27 PM']We are invited to the front of the congregation- at the foot of the alter, during COnsecration.[/quote]
that is a big no-no for any group, not just because it's youth

btw, welcome to phatmass

[vbbabespx]

why is a big no-no?

It actually makes me pay more attention. Because Jesus is just so close!

[EJames2]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1425986' date='Nov 27 2007, 07:35 PM']that is a big no-no for any group, not just because it's youth

btw, welcome to phatmass [/quote]
as per my post a few moments ago, the USA Lifeteen experience i spoke of, the kids went all around the whole sanctuary standing beside,and behind the priest filling the back- front sides , during the consecration, and no reverent kneeling was had.and..yuk, holding hands at the Pater Nostre....yet this was 8 or more years ago..

[vbbabespx]

No, we are in front. Our Sanctuary is elevated and we definately do not go on it. We definately kneel in the Consecration.


THe holding hands during hte Our Father. All of the Catholic Churches do that where I live although I know that we are not suppose to. I think it's because we are very infused with the Mexican Culture.

[MIKOTHEFREAKSHOW]

[quote name='EJames2' post='1425944' date='Nov 27 2007, 08:49 PM']FYI
i originally posted this, though all i knew of Lifeteen was an experience i had 8 Years ago in the USA, at a Eucharist i walked out of considering it illicit, and from a now good and Traditional young Monk, who credits his discovery of The faith , in Texas as a teen thru Lifeteen....[/quote]

huh?!?!?!

i am not saying i disagree with this statement, as i actually dont know what you just said LOL

[Lil Red]

[quote name='vbbabespx' post='1425999' date='Nov 27 2007, 08:46 PM']No, we are in front. Our Sanctuary is elevated and we definately do not go on it. We definately kneel in the Consecration.
THe holding hands during hte Our Father. All of the Catholic Churches do that where I live although I know that we are not suppose to. I think it's because we are very infused with the Mexican Culture.[/quote]
i'm still sure that what you described in against the rubrics of the Church. not for positive though.

as far as the holding hands during the Our Father, [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=5129"]HERE[/url] is a good thread to see about peeps here arguing for/against it.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Perpetualove' post='1425567' date='Nov 27 2007, 02:13 AM']Been a Youth Minister a long time. Never liked Life Teen. Not even a little bit. Wish I could say I'm surprised by all this, but I am not. This guy fits the criteria for classic text-book cultic behavior. I don't know anything about the sexual abuse, and I wish we would stop putting the Church in a position of scandal, and far be it for me to throw the first stone. I have spent a long time trying to get Youth Ministers educated about Life Teen. Life Teen is about a systematic forumula, and unfortunately, these systems don't work. One must leave room for the Holy Spirit and the individual soul. Canned programs, teen centered Masses and videos don't cut it. Confirmation was moved into a parish setting so community could be created. Community cannot be created to the exclusion of others...those of you ready to object...think about it for a second, and use your critical minds. How would feel about a Mass for old women? For gay men? For fathers only? For the oldest daughters of three kids? For dog owners? You would object, though obviously, in various times, places and situations, special Masses have been offered for special individualized groups (i.e., kids who go to Catholic schools, Mom's day of prayer - ending in Mass, Healing Mass for People with AIDS, etc...) A good parish welcomes all - poor, rich, young, old, sick, healthy. Married, single and religious. Those struggling and those doing okay. I know for a fact that kids do not need to be entertained, or separated, or treated like idiots. You give them sacred music, a place on the altar, and they will rise to the occasion. Groups that are run by singular, popular, charasmatic leaders such as the person we are discussing, it is a quick step from a group into a cult. Those of you who want more information, read Margaret Singer's Cults In Our Midst. Don't flame me, this is my educated opinion.[/quote]
All other things aside, I have to thank you for the warning of "cults" and stuff with youth ministries. I'll keep it filed in the back of my mind. Never thought about things like this.

[quote name='Wolfie' post='1425701' date='Nov 27 2007, 12:39 PM']The Catholic Church has approved the Lifeteen program. They approve and ENCOURAGE youth Masses, especially as a model of youth ministry. JPII said himself that the youth are a seperate culture.[/quote]
I am a youth. I don't wanna be a part of a "special" culture. I wanna be a part of the Catholic culture. Bring on the awesome vestments, incense, Latin and Gregorian chant. I want to be a part of the Body of Christ when I celebrate mass (in the orthodox sense, ie celebrating w/ those who have gone before, in the timeless sense).

[quote name='TradMom' post='1425764' date='Nov 27 2007, 03:46 PM'][color="#0000ff"][font="Century Gothic"][i]Dear All,

Praise be Jesus Christ the King; now and forever!

As you will see, this is my first answer to any of the posts here at Phatmass, though I have been an avid "lurker" for quite some time. As my "new name" indicates, I am a mother, traditional and in full communion with Rome. I have seven children, one on the way, and a daughter that just entered a Carmel. (Pray for her; and for us. Our first Christmas without her, and we are having pangs of holy loss!) I'm sure you can all imagine that my children are homeschooled. (Not a hard guess, is it?)

I found that necessary to share because of our home schooling life, my children did find it necessary to engage in Religious Education programs in order to receive the Holy Sacraments. We attended three separate parishes in which LifeTeen was used, and sadly, I took my children out of each parish.

I agree with Perpetualove's comments, which one person - I believe - misunderstood. She was not discussing systematic theology, but a "cultic system" - two very different things. Unlike our Church, and our own experience of Faith - wherein we find logic, truth, beauty and theology intertwined, building upon each other, and fitting together in order to progress to the next step or depth (think of St. Teresa's method of prayer, or St. Ignatius' for that matter), cults do the opposite. They bombard the new members with love, unconditional acceptance and overwhelming activities; and within their cultic system of thought reform, the individual ceases to think critically. Also, not every cult is bad, negative or destructive. Off the top of my head, I can think of groups that certainly fall within the definition of cult, and yet, are not destructive. I am willing to believe that at one point, the leader of LifeTeen had good intentions and created out a way to bring young people into the church. Many of the fallen priests, and Protestant ministers who found themselves popular and charismatic found the lure of fame, power and attention too much. Sadly, I am not surprised that this would have happened to the founder of the LifeTeen program as well. These material things are very hard to deny and walk away from.

Yes, whoever said that LifeTeen encourages all to attend - you are right. But it is clearly a Teen Mass. The Youth Ministers/Confirmation Directors I tried to work with in bringing my children to church invited me.[b] But they also made it very clear this idea of a separate "teen culture" is real. This idea is one in which I believe - just personally, I believe this! - is a negative and sad reflection on our times. [/b]

I will tell you why. I have raised one beautiful daughter that chose Carmel in the prime of her beauty and youth. I have raised another daughter considering that option as well - and whether she finds her place in a Monastery, or as a single woman or as a mother, the fact that she is even open to such a life makes my heart swell with love and pride. My sons have worked for Habitat for Humanity and take care - with me - of the younger ones. We say the Family Rosary every night, we have a home altar and take turns decorating it according to the seasons. My husband's sister has MS and she lives with us, and again, we all take turns taking care of her, driving her to appointments, helping her eat, bathing her (the girls, obviously) and helping her get through the day. (How much easier it would be to just put her in a hospital, pay for it! and claim her demanding presence is hurting our "family culture!") When we vacation, we do so together. We pray together, eat together, and are together. When I discovered, somewhat as a surprise, that I was pregnant, my family rejoiced! We all know, only too well, that the new baby will bring challenges and weariness, and yet, we all know this new little one has a place already in the family's heart. We have done novenas together, we have attended concerts together, and we do arts together. Does this make you sick? It does my friends. I have had one too many "friends" tell my husband and me that we are insane, smothering and overdoing it. My husband makes a good living, we have a nice house and can afford help, and yet, we believe in ora et labora; and our children, through our watchful eye and the grace of God, have worked and stayed out of trouble.

I have been told one too many times that my PhD has languished.

It hasn't. I studied sociology and destructive groups. I took classes under the author Perpetualove mentioned, Dr. Margaret Singer, RIP. I learned what makes a "group" healthy and whole, and how to build up for the long haul, not the short one. It is always dangerous to separate and declare something "different." It is always dangerous to have a group dependent upon a single founder or leader, charismatic or not. It is never a good idea to explain things away easily with one lines such as..."The Pope said so," or "This is how we do it." Our Faith, has never, ever - except in her darkest of days - encouraged or promoted black and white thinking. In cultic terms, this is called, "Doctrine Over Person," - this is why, in our Faith and Church, we have such a thing as pastoral care. A pastor, a priest, can make a pastoral decision that sometimes is out of the norm, for the good of the soul of the individual. We don't live by "doctrine over person," which cults do. Our collective culture - old, young, Spanish, White, sick, healthy - whatever - is linked by something our Faith encourages...called "critical thinking." This concept, of critical thinking (which destructive cults take away, by the way) is what can and should lead right into a good program of systematic theology. We have a history of our greatest saints asking questions, seeking, seeking, seeking...looking for answers and finding them. Sometimes. Sometimes our saints just lived without answers, and accepted the question as a mystery.

Every day I look at my sister in law and see her disease and I wonder why that happened to her. And so, I live with that mystery. Hearing, "God willed it," is not good enough because that doesn't answer the question. The answer, at this point, is a mystery, and I accept that - somedays easier than others - and I live with it.

My biggest problem with LifeTeen - and remember - I saw it in three different parishes - is that for me, it did not leave any room for the mysteries of life and faith. I saw a very controlled, very systematic - to borrow that word again - "organized" program. [b]I don't want my children to be told how special and how different they are. I don't want them to hear about their "special culture."[/b] I want them to hear and know and believe they are part of God's big family, the incredible interwoven complex of life. I want them to know Jesus Christ, to experience the earth shattering holiness of the Eucharist, and to encounter our Catholic culture in all of its splendor! I want them to greet the Face of Christ in the poorest of the poor as they pass out food they made, and I want them to sit next to the screaming baby, the old man who smells and the young couple who can't keep their hands off each other. I want them to know that the child is God's beloved Child, the old man is Christ's most gentle Friend, and the young couple, the wedding couple from Cana. I want my children to embrace the Body of Christ fully and to know this doesn't come from a fun and wacky priest, or a cool nun, or a hip youth minister. It comes through the experience of encountering Christ, and this is impossible in an enclosed environment, whether it is called that or not. As I can tell you only too well, a family - like a good community - forces each individual to accept the other and to realize not all of our needs and wants and hopes and desires and whatever else is in there will be met at each moment. [b]Sometimes Mass will be boring. Sometimes the Rosary will just fall out of our mouths without deep contemplation. Sometimes Holy Hour will seem like seven. And in each of those cases, sometimes not.
[/b]
If I could give every young person something, it would be the chance to be involved in an intergenerational group. I would give each young person the opportunity to serve and the chance to see the holiness is someone they least expected it. I would invite them to a Mass done in a sacred hush, and I would watch their faces for the flicker of recognition that they are standing on holy ground.

And, finally, I would encourage all young people to take the path not taken. Just because a program has lots and lots and lots of numbers does not mean it is good or worthy or wonderful. Take a minute and think about how fast cults are growing in this country and how resistent so many of us are to say anything about that.

I apologize for going on and on and on. For those of you who made it to the end of this little lecture, I hear you breathing a sigh of relief you are not being homeschooled by me! I hear that!!!

And for the rest of you...I guess you know why I have been a "lurker" for so long! See what happens?

In the meantime, whether we like this poor priest or not, let us remember that his creation has brought many to the Church. Let us thank God for the good he has done, let us pray that the damage of his current actions will create a mere ripple across our sea. Let us pray for good, solid priestly vocations and let us remember that none of us are exempt from the lures and snares of the enemy, and finally, let us pray for his soul. For he remains a priest now and forever, and as surely as I sit here with life kicking within me, I know Our Lady in Heaven is crying over his lost vocation and the willful turn of his face away from the Beloved.

Finally...dear ones, pray for our daughter, our family, and the little one a month away!

Momma (as my youngest calls me!)[/i][/font][/color][/quote]
That was great. I enjoyed the "ramble". Sounds like a beautiful family life, lots of love, devotion, etc. I bolded a few points to highlight the fact that I agree... and hey, I like your point that mass doesn't have to be made relevant (by music, improving the liturgy, w/e). Christ makes the liturgy relevant, just like he brings your family together, and unites you with all Catholics, including me, and Prose, and the other PMers. It's an amazing thing.

Now, as for my take on all this, I've been lurking the thread, making personal comments to myself, but not really said anything. So here it comes. What the heck is the priest thinking by "leaving"? I hope he snaps out of it and turns back to the truth. He needs prayers, his followers need prayers, and the alleged victims. As for Lifeteen itself, I'll keep what is said in mind, but I have no personal grudge against it.

That is all.

God bless.

[inDEED]

[quote name='vbbabespx' post='1425969' date='Nov 27 2007, 07:27 PM']LifeTeen has brought me back to the Church. It has made me fall in love with the Church again. At my Parish, the Lifeteen mass is open to everyone- old, young, familes, and single people. We experience everything. We have Benediction and Adoration. We go to reconciliation. We are invited to the front of the congregation- at the foot of the alter, during COnsecration. I think Lifeteen is excellent for teens in today's society.[/quote]

That's great! Good for you and your parish!

Don't be afraid to be PROUD of your involvement in your Church.

Thank you for coming back to the Church! Isn't Lifeteen awesome?

[Autumn Dusk]

In orthodox churches there often aren't pews and people strive to get close to the alter rail

[PopeClementI(MorClemis)]

Just for infos sake: How does the priest initiate getting the teens to the front of the congregation? I mean does he interrupt the Mass and announce it or ?? And doesn't it obstruct the view of the little old lady in the front, who chose to come early and sit there precisely because she can't see from further away?

[vbbabespx]

After the presentation of the Gifts.

The first row in Church is the lectors. The elderly/handicapped are on the side pews. Also, the elderly usually go to the saturday evening mass. The LifeTeen mass is usually just teens, families, and young couples. My Church is very large- our parish has over 8000 families. Usually, people are unable to see the priest.

[Lil Red]

holy cow.