Political Hell

[Paddington]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1468133' date='Feb 24 2008, 03:46 PM']The Catechism itself does not give definitive character (i.e., infallibility) to any doctrine; rather, the [i]de fide[/i] status of any particular teaching found within the Catechism pre-existed its publication in 1992.[/quote]

Are you saying that [i]everything[/i] in the CCC had the de fide status?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Paddington' post='1468135' date='Feb 24 2008, 10:26 AM']Are you saying that [i]everything[/i] in the CCC had the de fide status?[/quote]
No. I am saying that the Catechism adds nothing to the doctrinal weight of any particular teaching set forth in its pages, because the Catechism does not define any new dogmas, nor is it to be touted as some kind of super-dogmatic text. In other words, the dogmatic status of any particular teaching found in the Catechism pre-existed its publication in 1992.

Thus, for example, the teaching of the Council of Chalcedon that Christ is one divine person in two natures has the same dogmatic status after the publication of the Catechism that it had prior to its publication.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Paddington' post='1468135' date='Feb 24 2008, 10:26 AM']Are you saying that [i]everything[/i] in the CCC had the de fide status?[/quote]
Not everything taught in the Catechism is [i]de fide[/i]. In fact, the Catechism avoids taking sides in topics that have been debated in theology for centuries, e.g., the debate about whether grace is [i]created[/i] or [i]uncreated[/i].

[Red Knight]

A very interesting thread.

Not voting is not a sin, and here is why. I am faced with less than stellar candidates to choose from and none of them hold beliefs I support, so what do I do? I could vote for the most likely to win (I am always amazed there are people that do this), vote for the lesser of two evils (why?), or vote my conscience.

How may I vote my conscience? If there is a third party that has a platform I can believe in, I vote for their candidate. I could write in a candidate I believe would make a good president. Or, I could choose none of the candidates.

All votes count, even those not cast. The problem is we think too small. How can my single vote matter? When lumped together with others your vote matters greatly.

If more people strapped one on and voted their conscience we may not have horrible candidates to choose from.

If I didn't have a fair number of skeletons in my own closet I'd start my campaign for 2016 today, but I like my skeletons IN my closet and they like it there too.

Take your right to vote seriously and the responsibility that goes with it.

Weakening the Democrat's likely candidate in the primaries seems like a pretty good idea to me. Considering the vote is not voting someone into office, where is the crime? Where is the sin? In my mind, that primary vote was simply a notch to weaken the chances the Democrats win the general election and if that fails you still have the easier of two candidates to defeat at the next general election.

If we lived in a theocracy, we wouldn't be faced with situations like this, but we live in a very complex society that is very ill. We will be faced with many difficult decisions over the coming years if we intend to repair the damage caused by those with socialist leanings.

Red

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1467991' date='Feb 23 2008, 10:17 PM']According to the Church our first responsibility is to vote pro-life to end abortion and euthenasia...[/quote]
Prove it.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1468324' date='Feb 24 2008, 08:38 PM']Prove it.[/quote]
[img]http://www.glarkware.com/productcart/pc/catalog/main-chip.jpg[/img]

[Aloysius]

I didn't read anything other than the first couple posts.

I must say: the OP said they voted for Hillary in the democratic primary. that means he voted for Hillary over Obama. nothing sinful about that. neither is more or less pro-choice theoretically... voting to weaken Obama in '08 or to weaken the pro-choice democrats in '12 is totally acceptable.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1468650' date='Feb 25 2008, 02:05 PM']I didn't read anything other than the first couple posts.

I must say: the OP said they voted for Hillary in the democratic primary. that means he voted for Hillary over Obama. nothing sinful about that. neither is more or less pro-choice theoretically... voting to weaken Obama in '08 or to weaken the pro-choice democrats in '12 is totally acceptable.[/quote]


Wrong

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong


Show me where in Church teachings that it is ever ok to vote for someone who is 100% prochoice. Ever

[Socrates]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1468650' date='Feb 25 2008, 03:05 PM']I didn't read anything other than the first couple posts.

I must say: the OP said they voted for Hillary in the democratic primary. that means he voted for Hillary over Obama. nothing sinful about that. neither is more or less pro-choice theoretically... voting to weaken Obama in '08 or to weaken the pro-choice democrats in '12 is totally acceptable.[/quote]
True. This is different than if it were the Presidential election. The Democratic Primary is not a vote for [i]President[/i], but for whom the[i] Democratic nominee [/i]will be. Seeking to weaken the pro-abortion Dem party in such a way is not a sin.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1468921' date='Feb 25 2008, 09:12 PM']True. This is different than if it were the Presidential election. The Democratic Primary is not a vote for [i]President[/i], but for whom the[i] Democratic nominee [/i]will be. Seeking to weaken the pro-abortion Dem party in such a way is not a sin.[/quote]

Fine if he doesn't want to do it, you can Soc

Show me where the Church talks voting where it says "except for primaries"

It doesn't

[dUSt]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1468679' date='Feb 25 2008, 03:09 PM']Wrong

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong
Show me where in Church teachings that it is ever ok to vote for someone who is 100% prochoice. Ever[/quote]
I thought we could vote for a 100% pro-choice killer if the only other option was another 100% pro-choice killer who herded sheep.

[Jaime]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1469041' date='Feb 25 2008, 11:31 PM']I thought we could vote for a 100% pro-choice killer if the only other option was another 100% pro-choice killer who herded sheep.[/quote]

somebody feels better

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1469008' date='Feb 25 2008, 08:54 PM']Fine if he doesn't want to do it, you can Soc

Show me where the Church talks voting where it says "except for primaries"

It doesn't[/quote]
The Church has not spoken about political party primaries or caucuses at all.

That said, Catholics who are registered as Democrats – although I wonder why a Catholic would register in a pro-death political party – can vote for whichever candidate they believe will minimize the deleterious effects of the pro-murder movement in that party. But, as I have said before, I will not vote for a “pro-choice” candidate at all, and that is why I will not vote for Obama, Clinton, or McCain in the general election.

[Justin86]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1469084' date='Feb 26 2008, 08:48 PM']The Church has not spoken about political party primaries or caucuses at all.

That said, Catholics who are registered as Democrats – although I wonder why a Catholic would register in a pro-death political party – can vote for whichever candidate they believe will minimize the deleterious effects of the pro-murder movement in that party. But, as I have said before, I will not vote for a “pro-choice” candidate at all, and that is why I will not vote for Obama, Clinton, or McCain in the general election.[/quote]
Some states don't require a voter to be registered in a particular party in order to vote in that party's primary, although these states only limit you to voting in one primary. I believe this is what Dismas did in Michigan.

Anyone who thinks the Church has infallibly commented on how a Catholic may vote in the American primary system(ugh) is being ridiculous.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1469084' date='Feb 26 2008, 05:48 AM']The Church has not spoken about political party primaries or caucuses at all.

That said, Catholics who are registered as Democrats – although I wonder why a Catholic would register in a pro-death political party – can vote for whichever candidate they believe will minimize the deleterious effects of the pro-murder movement in that party. But, as I have said before, I will not vote for a “pro-choice” candidate at all, and that is why I will not vote for Obama, Clinton, or McCain in the general election.[/quote]

What has Arinze and the other cardinals say about voting Todd? What does the Church say about voting for 100% prochoice candidates?