Political Hell

[Lounge Daddy]

I see the Drudge Report headline: "That Makes it Nine in a Row!"
Not good for Hillary.

Wisconsin Exit Polls:
Obama Won:
Women (51-49)
All age groups under 65
All education levels
All regions of the state -- urban, suburban and rural
Voters without college degrees (50-48)
Democrats (50-49)
Whites (53-46)
White men (59-38)
Voters who decided in the last week (58-42)

Won or tied voters of all income levels
Tied among white women
Tied among union members
Tied among union households

[Justin86]

Well I don't know. When the Republican primary is already decided and we're going to have a pro-choice Democratic candidate regardless I don't see a sin in voting for Hillary if one views her as less electable.

[KnightofChrist]

According to CNN exit polls 76% of people who voted for McCain believe abortion should be legal... looking through all of the primary exit polls this happens again and again.

[url="http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/index.html#WIREP"]http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries...ndex.html#WIREP[/url]

Edited February 20, 2008 by KnightofChrist

[Jaime]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1465977' date='Feb 20 2008, 01:49 AM']Well I don't know. When the Republican primary is already decided and we're going to have a pro-choice Democratic candidate regardless I don't see a sin in voting for Hillary if one views her as less electable.[/quote]

Yes rationalization can be a wonderful thing.

Happily you don't decide Church doctrine so its not your call.


Here's the problem people. Dismas and others are being proactive in getting a prochoice democrat into office for the next four years IN THE HOPES that things will get screwed up, the GOP will nominate a "true conservative".

This is may be a wonderful move for conservatism, it is antithetical to the prolife movement.

[White Knight]

Look, this Election season, doesn't look promising for the Republican party, but that doesn't mean you go off and vote for the greater evil of the two, Matter of Fact, Hillary and Obama are not good choices at all, and McCain is the Republican version of Hillary Clinton in terms of his politics, hes got a bunch of convincing to do towards independant voters and the hardcore conservative base.

In the worst case possibility, if you had to choose a Democrat, between Hillary and Obama, the better choice would be not to vote, because they are both playing the "lets dig up dirt game", Obama is so trying to disguise how Liberal he is, hes trying to make Hillary look worse, and Hillary is basically like voting for a communist, shes trying to make herself look more moderate and make Obama look more Liberal.

John McCain is strong on somethings "so he claims" but hes been known to backstab, twist, and turn on his ideals, making him a very untrust worthy Nominee

McCain is weak on Life Issues Period. hes the strongest of the three, but still non the less very weak. Hes strong on National Security issues, but thats not saying much, hes against the Tax cuts..


This Election is not appealing for anyone religious or even non religious.


The Point is though, as a Good Moral Catholic, any good Moral Catholic, is not Permitted to vote for anything that is opposed to the Church Teachings and still be in good standing with the Church. Stop seperating your faith from your politics and vote your faith. Stop neglecting your moral conscience, and listen to what is right.


God Bless.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1465968' date='Feb 20 2008, 01:12 AM']It's a primary. And an open primary at that. Take it easy.

Sackcloth and flogging.[/quote]


[quote name='Justin86' post='1465977' date='Feb 20 2008, 01:49 AM']Well I don't know. When the Republican primary is already decided and we're going to have a pro-choice Democratic candidate regardless I don't see a sin in voting for Hillary if one views her as less electable.[/quote]

And what did Cardinal Arinze have to say about this?

[quote]Asked about the moral obligations of Catholics during elections; voting for pro-abortion candidates; giving Holy Communion to “pro-choice” politicians, Cardinal Arinze replied unequivocally, as he has in the past:

“Do you really need a cardinal from the Vatican to answer that question? Can a child having made his First Communion not answer that question? Is it really so complicated? The child will give the correct answer immediately, unless he is conditioned by political correctness. It is a pity, cardinals have to be asked such questions.

“If a person has a way of life which is against the major Commandments, and makes a boast of it, then the person is in a state which is publicly sinful. It is he who has disqualified himself, not the priest or the bishop. He should not go to Communion, until his life should be in line with the Gospel”.[/quote]


Does he qualify things by saying "Except for primaries, calm down people"

No

[fides quarens intellectum]

i'm confused - are you suggesting Dismas shouldn't receive Communion, or that Hillary Clinton shouldn't?

[Jaime]

[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' post='1466135' date='Feb 20 2008, 10:13 AM']i'm confused - are you suggesting Dismas shouldn't receive Communion, or that Hillary Clinton shouldn't?[/quote]


Well Hillary isn't Catholic so that's not a question.

I'm saying no where in Catholic teaching does it say that one can support evil to eventually do good. It also doesn't say "except for primaries"

I'm not suggesting, I'm STATING, what Dismas did was formally support a 100% prochoice politician and that is not acceptable ever. He has put his party before his faith.

[fides quarens intellectum]

To me, it sounds more like he was trying to get Obama to lose in his state instead of formally supporting Clinton for president. We have to keep intent in mind. This was a primary election - people often switch parties in primaries to vote for the person on the opposing side whom they think their party has a better chance of beating.

Just to be safe, though, guess he could go to confession...

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote name='Dismas' post='1465909' date='Feb 19 2008, 11:12 PM']So tell me, how does me voting for McCain in a primary, where the Republican ticket is assured, help anything whatsoever?

Does McCain gain magical "life points" by having extra primary votes thrown at him? No.

The simple fact is that the Republican contest is over. Like it or hate it, it's over. Thus, I am forced to consider a secondary objective: to force a weaker candidate for my enemy, which is Hillary Lucifer Clinton.[/quote]

i'm with dismas on this.
at least for the primaries it can be a strategical manuevure.
i'd say since mccain is a shoe in, detracting from obama is actually teh right answer and voting for mccain wrong.

i also tend to think that jaimie is having a field day with all this, for the purpose of having a field day, more than he's admitting.
(but he does have quasi compelling arguments for why he was justified to vote kerry/gore but other can't vote against mccain... more of a rationalization on his part than anything, but)
(just like the more than anything rationalization of Al saying it's okay to allow four to eight years of democrats and democrat justices in order to get the next republican possibly sooner to be more prolife. i mean, how much more prolife than mccain do you expect,,, given that he's pretty much prolife, and especially given that you're going so far out on a limb to get it?)

Edited February 20, 2008 by dairygirl4u2c

[LivingStone]

With all this hype of the politics stressing everyone out, I think that it is a good to remember who really is in charge of everything. There is only one King and His Kingdom is here. His will is the one that will be done.

I'm not trying to take away from our responsibility of voting, but keep this in mind when deciding who should lead this nation, which is but dust compared to the Kingdom of God.

God bless,
Matthew

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1465930' date='Feb 19 2008, 09:08 PM']You do not vote for a pro death candidate if you're Catholic. Period end of statement.[/quote]
I agree, and that is why I will not vote for Clinton, Obama, or McCain in the upcoming general election.

[dairygirl4u2c]

NARAL even has a bashing article about him on their website bc he's too prolife. he voted 113 out of 117 times on the prolife issue.
[url="http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/elections/statements/mccain.html"]http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/elections/...nts/mccain.html[/url]

the evidence is indisputable, effectively.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1466132' date='Feb 20 2008, 07:51 AM']And what did Cardinal Arinze have to say about this?
[quote]Asked about the moral obligations of Catholics during elections; voting for pro-abortion candidates; giving Holy Communion to “pro-choice” politicians, Cardinal Arinze replied unequivocally, as he has in the past:

“Do you really need a cardinal from the Vatican to answer that question? Can a child having made his First Communion not answer that question? Is it really so complicated? The child will give the correct answer immediately, unless he is conditioned by political correctness. It is a pity, cardinals have to be asked such questions.

“If a person has a way of life which is against the major Commandments, and makes a boast of it, then the person is in a state which is publicly sinful. It is he who has disqualified himself, not the priest or the bishop. He should not go to Communion, until his life should be in line with the Gospel”.[/quote]
Does he qualify things by saying "Except for primaries, calm down people"

No
[/quote]
I agree, a Catholic should not vote in the Democrat party primaries, and that is one reason why I am not registered as a Democrat, because the Democrat party platform officially supports the murder of innocent unborn children under the politically correct euphemism of "choice."

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1466173' date='Feb 20 2008, 09:46 AM']NARAL even has a bashing article about him on their website bc he's too prolife. he voted 113 out of 117 times on the prolife issue.
[url="http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/elections/statements/mccain.html"]http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/elections/...nts/mccain.html[/url]

the evidence is indisputable, effectively.[/quote]
NARAL is irrelevant. McCain supports stem cell research using the murdered remains of unborn children, and on the issue of abortion, McCain is just as pro-choice as President Bush, if not more so.