When Is Talking About Others Gossip?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Okay, I get really scrupulous about gossip because I've been known in the past to have a weakness for it. I really try to hold my tongue now whenever possible, but it's started to become a bit of a scrupulous burden. For instance, there are a few people with whom I have to coordinate events regarding youth ministry in my diocese. Some of them are very disorganized. My two most trusted volunteers know this. We vent to each other sometimes about this one person who is very disorganized and, in our honest estimation, shouldn't have her job. It's not that we wish her anything bad, it's just that she doesn't do a particularly good job at what she does and we know there are others who could do better. Many of the other youth ministers don't even coordinate activities with this person because whenever she plans events, everything gets very complicated, false information on dates and times gets spread, some people never get the information they're supposed to get, others get blamed for her mistakes (she gets pretty defensive), etc. So every couple months or so, this particular person starts calling around planning stuff and we all get troubled about it and vent about it amongst ourselves because we know it's going to fall flat on its face, frustrate us, and just make our jobs more complicated than they need to be. We don't share our frustrations with the youth (well, I don't, anyway) or others who are not involved in the inner circle of ministry. I keep my mouth shut about her when I'm speaking with any of my coworkers, except my pastor, because I need to let him know what's going on.

Is it gossip to vent about people who are frustrating you if you're venting to a select few confidants, not trying to ruin someone's reputation, not spreading lies about a person, but just trying to share the burden with someone who can understand and commiserate? Is it gossip if those you're talking with already know about the other person's faults and the reason you're discussing them is to help yourself get through the difficulty of dealing with the person?

God bless,

Micah

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I've struggled with the same weakness, Micah. I have discovered that I do have an in-built 'gossip sensor' and that if I have to stop to ask myself whether I'm gossiping, I probably am. That said, I have never struggled with scrupulosity, so this piece of advice probably won't be much good to you.

I think it's all right to vent your frustration with people whom you cuddle with my weeble and wub and trust. We aren't robots and sometimes we need to talk. The trick is to make sure that such talking is helpful to your coworker, too. When your frustration has cooled off a bit, think out some ways to help her get better at her work. Pray for her and pray for yourself too. That should keep any tendency to gossip at bay.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1492606' date='Apr 4 2008, 04:33 PM']I've struggled with the same weakness, Micah. I have discovered that I do have an in-built 'gossip sensor' and that if I have to stop to ask myself whether I'm gossiping, I probably am. That said, I have never struggled with scrupulosity, so this piece of advice probably won't be much good to you.

I think it's all right to vent your frustration with people whom you cuddle with my weeble and wub and trust. We aren't robots and sometimes we need to talk. The trick is to make sure that such talking is helpful to your coworker, too. When your frustration has cooled off a bit, think out some ways to help her get better at her work. Pray for her and pray for yourself too. That should keep any tendency to gossip at bay. [/quote]

Well, it's not really a coworker...it's my counterpart in the diocesan chancery. I don't see her everyday, I don't work in the same office...but we have enough interaction that her lack of organization frustrates me and my volunteers.

[CatherineM]

In a professional setting, it isn't gossip if you are trying to remedy a situation by either talking to her about the issues, or her supervisor. On your end, if you are making people aware that need to know the information in order to do their jobs, that also isn't gossip. Sometimes we vent frustration as a way of trying to work through solutions to the problem either with ourselves, or with someone else. Even if there isn't a solution, talking about it might help.

[Birgitta Noel]

It might also help Micah if each time you all vent about her you say a quick prayer for her as well. And you might consider addressing the situation directly, if you haven't already. You know, be a part of the solution. Others clearly know what's going on, so see if you can find some constructive ways to work through the problems (which sound huge!).

Good luck!

[Deb]

I have this same type of problem only it is with a family member who just tries my patience, pushes my buttons and makes me crazy. I felt every time I discussed the latest attack with another family member I would be gossiping but, seeing as everyone knows this person is a tad off, I am not telling them anything new, just getting it off my chest. When I actually react to them in anger or impatience, then I feel like I have sinned.

I was told in one confession that what I should do is everytime this family member emailed me something that ticked me off or said something, I should just excuse myself, say the memorare, and ask for Mary's help in being loving and patient. Kind of like counting to ten but, getting some help from Our Mother.

I am not sure what to do when someone at work starts doing a major gossip about someone else. I don't want to listen but, am not always sure how to walk away. I don't add anything to the conversation but, I feel listening is as bad as doing it. Any ideas on how to get out of that situation?

[Aloysius]

if it's a public fact that she makes no secret of by being so disorganized that it would disrupt the ordinary flow of work for you, I do not think it is harmful to her reputation in any way if you and another person for whom this is a problem vent about it.

warning: weird unrealistic example that just popped into my head because it seemed to explain my thoughts:
if two women are being womanized by the same man, it would not be gossip for them to vent to each other about it.

similarly, you and your two trusted volunteers are all harmed by this disorganization and it helps you all to cope to vent with each other about it. that's fine. if you went and whispered to the church lady in the front pew "this person working for our diocese is disorganized and shouldn't have her job" that would be gossip. or if you put her name up on phatmass with all this info, that would be gossip. three co-workers who all share a problem at work caused by one person venting about how difficult their job is made because of that person is not gossip, in my estimation. you are not harming her reputation nor spreading information that you do not have a right to spread to people who do not have a right to know, I see no calumny nor gossip in my limited understanding of the circumstances.

this doesn't mean a free-for-all for co-workers to gossip about bosses and stuff, I'm talking about things that are specifically professional nuisances. co-workers could talk about how tough their boss is being on them without being gossips, for instance, but they could not talk about who they thought their boss was sleeping with without being gossips.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1497020' date='Apr 11 2008, 04:34 AM']warning: weird unrealistic example that just popped into my head because it seemed to explain my thoughts:
if two women are being womanized by the same man, it would not be gossip for them to vent to each other about it.[/quote]


ummmm.... I've totally been in that situation.... very realistic- you did get the weird part right.

But doesn'tgossip have to do with scandal? So if there's no scandal (since everyone involved knows what's going on AND is directly affected by it) it doesn't seem that it would in any way be gossip.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

sorry to bring this up again, but I have a similar question but its not about work.

Am I allowed to tell people about what happened to me during a specific day, if it contains things about people that they might not want others to know?

I'm not trying to ruin their reputation, but I feel like I need to talk to a friend about it, and I don't want to gossip. I'm not really sure what to do.

to clarify:

It wasn't did you hear what so and so did today?

It was: This is what happened to me today, so and so did this. I'm really upset about it...

Edited April 10, 2009 by Extra ecclesiam nulla salus

[HisChildForever]

We all need to vent to a close friend, family member, or co-worker at some point because keeping all those emotions in is really unhealthy. I have always thought that "gossip" is when you purposefully lie about someone to someone ELSE in order to make the former look bad, damage their reputation, and bulk up your image (and pride, for that matter). I think a lot of people associate "gossip" with talking about someone behind their back (in a negative manner). Now while that is not appropriate it does not constitute what gossip really is, IMO.

[philothea]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1830449' date='Apr 10 2009, 12:50 AM']sorry to bring this up again, but I have a similar question but its not about work.

Am I allowed to tell people about what happened to me during a specific day, if it contains things about people that they might not want others to know?

I'm not trying to ruin their reputation, but I feel like I need to talk to a friend about it, and I don't want to gossip. I'm not really sure what to do.

to clarify:

It wasn't did you hear what so and so did today?

It was: This is what happened to me today, so and so did this. I'm really upset about it...[/quote]

Is it possible to speak in a way where the identity or role of the other person isn't obvious (or at least, isn't highlighted?)

[CatherineM]

Perhaps it is something to be discussed with a confessor or spiritual adviser.

[Dr_Asik]

There are few things I despise more than gossip... To me, revealing details of a person's private life is always gossip, unless there's a very good reason to do so, and then I'll weigh every word that comes out of my mouth very carefully. I just can't stand people making assumptions about others and then broadcasting their opinions to make themselves interesting. It doesn't matter how well informed they are, but the matter of fact is, they're usually VERY uninformed opinions.

Even with my closest friends to whom I'd share anything about myself, I will say as little as possible about others. Sometimes I'll break the rule just to make someone realize how uninformed, pointless and harmful his gossip is, but again, revealing as little actual details as possible.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Dr_Asik

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='Dr_Asik' post='1831432' date='Apr 10 2009, 11:57 PM']There are few things I despise more than gossip... To me, revealing details of a person's private life is always gossip, unless there's a very good reason to do so, and then I'll weigh every word that comes out of my mouth very carefully. I just can't stand people making assumptions about others and then broadcasting their opinions to make themselves interesting. It doesn't matter how well informed they are, but the matter of fact is, they're usually VERY uninformed opinions.

Even with my closest friends to whom I'd share anything about myself, I will say as little as possible about others. Sometimes I'll break the rule just to make someone realize how uninformed, pointless and harmful his gossip is, but again, revealing as little actual details as possible.[/quote]


Does intention matter when it comes to gossip? I wasn't making assumptions or judging anyone. I was simply telling someone about how traumatic my evening was, which was mostly caused by the actions of a friend.

I'll probably just ask a priest, since its very murky.

[Dr_Asik]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' post='1831538' date='Apr 11 2009, 01:28 AM']Does intention matter when it comes to gossip? I wasn't making assumptions or judging anyone. I was simply telling someone about how traumatic my evening was, which was mostly caused by the actions of a friend.

I'll probably just ask a priest, since its very murky.[/quote]I wasn't talking about you or that particular situation, just giving my general views on gossip.

As for "venting"... I think one should try to get his venting done while saying as little as possible on whoever is frustrating or worrying him. I guess if your confident is just that, a confident (someone external, like a spiritual director), you don't risk causing much harm. But if B vents to C about A, and C is a friend of A, now you've spilled poison in that friendship... (again talking generally, I've no idea who was implied and how in your situation.)

I'm not saying it's never justified. If crimes must be revealed so be it. Sometimes you have to speak up, it's a matter of justice. But then it's hardly "gossip", a word that has a very pointless and despicable connotation in my language.

Intentions always matter. They don't make an evil act good, but good intentions alleviate the burden of culpability.

Pardon me a personal comment (I think it's warranted in this case), but you seem a bit scrupulous, with your threads about mortal and venial sin and did you do wrong, and if so how wrong etc. I think you need to keep in mind that God loves you dearly and personally; that the grand commandment of love (for God and your neighbor) should be your ultimate moral guide; and that you'd best take these matters to a good spiritual director. Not that I wish to sound patronizing. I just happened to have lived my religion as a quest for moral purity for many years and it has brought me nothing but worrying and low self-esteem. I wouldn't like you to make the same mistakes.