Pope Resurrects Old Rituals For Mass

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='Noel's angel' post='1603541' date='Jul 19 2008, 06:02 PM']I'm unsure about how kneeling to receive could cause scandal. Should fear of being looked upon as being 'different' stop us from what we believe is the best thing to do?

I personally don't kneel to receive, but then again, I don't believe that it necessarily means the person receiving is more respectful than a person who receives standing.[/quote]

It's the same reason that I do not wear a mantilla or head covering. Many people associate those who wear head coverings or those who kneel to receive with someone who has a traditionalist agenda. The trying to be "holier than thou" or something like that. It's true and as sad as it is, I don't want to perpetuate those types of judgements. No, I'm not responsible for what other people think, but I don't think that I should put my personal devotion ahead of placing others into a near occasion of sin. I don't think that kneeling is necessarily more respectful than standing for everyone. But it would be for me. At the same time, I also realize that inner-disposition is most important... which is why it is not immediate for me to need to kneel when receiving.

I guess it all just comes down to how important you think the issue is. I will always receive on the tongue-- even in places where EVERYONE (and I've been to places like this) receives in the hand and you get looked at funny for not doing so. That's something that is very important in the realm of reverence. On the other hand, while I think kneeling is a good and reverent practice, it is not something that I am going to be adamant about, all things considered.

I suppose what I'm saying about the possible affects of the Holy Father's preference is that people will slowly begin to see that kneeling is NOT a statement of "trying to be holier than thou" or being "showy". And if that begins to happen, I think a lot more people will be comfortable kneeling to receive.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1603589' date='Jul 19 2008, 09:32 PM']This gets tricky when we start talking about what is "most respectful". In Japan Catholics do not kneel. They stand. This is considered "most respectful". Kneeling may be considered most respectful in the West but the Church is universal and as such there are different norms of respect for different cultures. If you go to Mass in Japan you should do as the Japanese do and stand. You should not try to make an example of yourself by kneeling when no one else in the church is doing so.

They do have kneelers in their churches and they do kneel when they pray and very often after they receive Holy Communion. But not during the Consecration. And they never genuflect when they go up to receive Communion. Again, genuflecting is a Western gesture. Japanese will bow instead. They also bow, rather than genuflect, when they enter the church and greet Jesus in the Tabernable.

We need to be very careful not to try to apply norms of reverence in a too-global fashion. If someone states that "kneeling is the most respectful" and you're speaking of the Universal Church, then you would be unfairly judging non-kneelers--such as the Japanese--as being less respectful than yourself.

And anyway, Christianity came from the East. The idea that only Western gestures are the most reverent is really not even really historically accurate. Not that I'm against kneeling and genuflecting...I'm just saying. Be careful how we judge other cultures.[/quote]

I agree. And perhaps our Eastern Catholic friend can attest (or tell me wrong) to this... I've heard that certain Eastern traditions' most reverent posture is standing. Or at least, I've heard that for the Maronite tradition this is so.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1603602' date='Jul 19 2008, 06:45 PM']I agree. And perhaps our Eastern Catholic friend can attest (or tell me wrong) to this... I've heard that certain Eastern traditions' most reverent posture is standing. Or at least, I've heard that for the Maronite tradition this is so.[/quote]
Yes, standing in the presence of the Eucharistic elements is held to be a sign of reverence in the Byzantine tradition, while also being a sign of faith in the resurrection. In fact, in the Byzantine Churches kneeling is forbidden on all Sundays throughout the year, and on all days during Paschaltide.

[mortify]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1603597' date='Jul 19 2008, 07:42 PM']It's the same reason that I do not wear a mantilla or head covering. Many people associate those who wear head coverings or those who kneel to receive with someone who has a traditionalist agenda. The trying to be "holier than thou" or something like that. It's true and as sad as it is, I don't want to perpetuate those types of judgements.[/quote]

What's sad is that doing what's right will get you labeled a "radtrad" or having a "holier than thou" attitude. The reality is we need good examples, we need people to show others what's right, and the only people that get offended by this are those that perpetuate the laxity towards norms.