The End Of Catholic Hospitals

[Aloysius]

'Freedom of Choice Act' Threatens Free Choice of Hospitals

Will Obama Close Catholic Hospitals?

by John Vennari

Published in the Philadephia daily Bulletin, Oct. 31, 2008

On Oct. 7, 2007, Sen. Barack Obama spoke to the Planned Parenthood Action Fund and promised, "The first thing I'd do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. That's the first thing I'll do."

What is the Freedom of Choice Act? It is the most sweeping pro-abortion legislation ever proposed in the United States.

In a letter dated Sept. 19 to members of Congress, Philadelphia's Justin Cardinal Rigali rightly warned:

"Despite its deceptive title, FOCA would deprive the American people in all 50 states of the freedom they now have to enact modest restraints and regulations on the abortion industry. FOCA would coerce all Americans into subsidizing and promoting abortion with their tax dollars. And FOCA would counteract any and all sincere efforts by government to reduce abortions in our country.

"The operative language of FOCA is twofold. First it creates a 'fundamental right' to abortion throughout the nine months of pregnancy, including a right to abort a fully developed child in the final weeks for undefined "health" reasons. No government body at any level would be able to "deny or interfere with" this newly created federal right. Second, it forbids government at all levels to "discriminate" against the exercise of this right "in the regulation or provision of benefits, facilities, services, or information." For the first time, abortion on demand would be a national entitlement that government must condone and promote in all public programs affecting pregnant women," said the cardinal.

It is clear the FOCA raises abortion to what it calls a "fundamental right." Yet it is not clear if Catholics realize the threat that Mr. Obama poses to the unborn, to believing Catholics in the medical profession, and to Catholic hospitals across the nation.

Michael Moses, legal analyst of the United States Council of Catholic Bishops called it a "radical measure" that will "go way beyond Roe [vs. Wade]." The language is so sweeping that it will wipe out any state's "conscience" clause, which is the law that allows hospitals, doctors and nurses to abstain from taking part in abortion for reasons of conscience. If abortion is a "fundamental right", according to FOCA, then every hospital must provide it.

The net result, as one writer noted, is "President Obama and his congressional supermajority would force every Christian hospital, doctor or nurse to abandon their faith or go out of business." Under FOCA, believing Christians could be banned from the hospital industry (and apostolate) by federal law.

CFN Addendum to Bulletin article:

This aspect of Obama's candidacy has been eclipsed by endless talk about the economy.

It is tragic that our own Catholic clergy have not effectively warned the people under their charge of this danger. This could be remedied if every priest in every diocese in the country would inform their congregations this Sunday of the grave threat to the lives of the unborn, and to the continuance of Catholic hospitals, that an Obama presidency poses.


Also on line at: [url="http://www.cfnews.org/ObamaCloseCatholicHospitals.htm"]http://www.cfnews.org/ObamaCloseCatholicHospitals.htm[/url]

If this occurs, The Church ought to close every last one of them... not sell them to someone to be used as hospitals... shut down the buildings and lock them up, and refuse to re-open them unless they are allowed to refuse abortion. Let the whole populace die of sickness, at least babies won't be dying of murder. It's time to get serious.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1690020' date='Oct 31 2008, 01:45 PM']If this occurs, The Church ought to close every last one of them... not sell them to someone to be used as hospitals... shut down the buildings and lock them up, and refuse to re-open them unless they are allowed to refuse abortion. Let the whole populace die of sickness, at least babies won't be dying of murder. It's time to get serious.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
agreed. and if the government won't budge, they should knock down the buildings.

although, a thought just popped into my head. if they threatened to knock down the buildings (or just hold them hostage, i suppose), could the gov't enforce 'imminent domain', seize the buildings and have the gov't run the hospitals?

[HollyDolly]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1690020' date='Oct 31 2008, 03:45 PM']'Freedom of Choice Act' Threatens Free Choice of Hospitals

Will Obama Close Catholic Hospitals?

by John Vennari

Published in the Philadephia daily Bulletin, Oct. 31, 2008

On Oct. 7, 2007, Sen. Barack Obama spoke to the Planned Parenthood Action Fund and promised, "The first thing I'd do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. That's the first thing I'll do."

What is the Freedom of Choice Act? It is the most sweeping pro-abortion legislation ever proposed in the United States.

In a letter dated Sept. 19 to members of Congress, Philadelphia's Justin Cardinal Rigali rightly warned:

"Despite its deceptive title, FOCA would deprive the American people in all 50 states of the freedom they now have to enact modest restraints and regulations on the abortion industry. FOCA would coerce all Americans into subsidizing and promoting abortion with their tax dollars. And FOCA would counteract any and all sincere efforts by government to reduce abortions in our country.

"The operative language of FOCA is twofold. First it creates a 'fundamental right' to abortion throughout the nine months of pregnancy, including a right to abort a fully developed child in the final weeks for undefined "health" reasons. No government body at any level would be able to "deny or interfere with" this newly created federal right. Second, it forbids government at all levels to "discriminate" against the exercise of this right "in the regulation or provision of benefits, facilities, services, or information." For the first time, abortion on demand would be a national entitlement that government must condone and promote in all public programs affecting pregnant women," said the cardinal.

It is clear the FOCA raises abortion to what it calls a "fundamental right." Yet it is not clear if Catholics realize the threat that Mr. Obama poses to the unborn, to believing Catholics in the medical profession, and to Catholic hospitals across the nation.

Michael Moses, legal analyst of the United States Council of Catholic Bishops called it a "radical measure" that will "go way beyond Roe [vs. Wade]." The language is so sweeping that it will wipe out any state's "conscience" clause, which is the law that allows hospitals, doctors and nurses to abstain from taking part in abortion for reasons of conscience. If abortion is a "fundamental right", according to FOCA, then every hospital must provide it.

The net result, as one writer noted, is "President Obama and his congressional supermajority would force every Christian hospital, doctor or nurse to abandon their faith or go out of business." Under FOCA, believing Christians could be banned from the hospital industry (and apostolate) by federal law.

CFN Addendum to Bulletin article:

This aspect of Obama's candidacy has been eclipsed by endless talk about the economy.

It is tragic that our own Catholic clergy have not effectively warned the people under their charge of this danger. This could be remedied if every priest in every diocese in the country would inform their congregations this Sunday of the grave threat to the lives of the unborn, and to the continuance of Catholic hospitals, that an Obama presidency poses.


Also on line at: [url="http://www.cfnews.org/ObamaCloseCatholicHospitals.htm"]http://www.cfnews.org/ObamaCloseCatholicHospitals.htm[/url]

If this occurs, The Church ought to close every last one of them... not sell them to someone to be used as hospitals... shut down the buildings and lock them up, and refuse to re-open them unless they are allowed to refuse abortion. Let the whole populace die of sickness, at least babies won't be dying of murder. It's time to get serious.[/quote]

You say IF this happens that the Church should close their doors,and they should refuse to re open them unlessthey are allowed to refuse abortion.LET THE WHOLE POPULACE DIE OF SICKNESS,AT LEAST BABIES WON"T BE DYING OF MURDER.
But wouldn't the Church be commiting murder if it did that? By advocating such a thought wouldn't that make someone guilty of genecide?Not of any particular race, but of all men,women AND CHILDREN ALL READY BORN AND GROWING?Of the elderly, the handicapped or others who are hurt,injured or in life threating situations?
Do you really think this will stop abortions? They have been around since the dawn of time and will continue to be unless men and women refrain from sexual activity outside of marriage.

[Madame Vengier]

This is exactly what happens in a socialist/communist government.

And to add, I would not put it past "President" Obama to instate a policy very similar to China--forcing families to limit the number of children they are allowed to have. This is another method of the socialist agenda of "spreading the wealth around": bring population under control ("under control" being whatever the socialist government wants it to be--two children per family or something similar). It is not hard to convince a nation of "what's best for them" when they didn't value the freedoms they had in the first place.

Edited October 31, 2008 by Madame Vengier

[kamiller42]

This is the kind of stuff that happens when you give power to the government. And people who do not believe Obama's federal health insurance program isn't granting the feds power over their lives are blind. The program will not be the same as Congress'. No money comes from the feds without hooks. They will control your behavior through the program like a puppeteer pulling strings on a marionette.

The Canadian health care system has been trying to force pro-life physicians to perform abortions. They have been able to claim conscientious objection, but the push has been on to punish these doctors. [url="http://www.physiciansforlife.ca/"]See these guys[/url]. I like the title page. So true.

[philothea]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1690020' date='Oct 31 2008, 03:45 PM']If this occurs, The Church ought to close every last one of them... not sell them to someone to be used as hospitals... shut down the buildings and lock them up, and refuse to re-open them unless they are allowed to refuse abortion. Let the whole populace die of sickness, at least babies won't be dying of murder. It's time to get serious.[/quote]

Seriously. Complete agreement.

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1690074' date='Oct 31 2008, 04:34 PM']+J.M.J.+
agreed. and if the government won't budge, they should knock down the buildings.

although, a thought just popped into my head. if they threatened to knock down the buildings (or just hold them hostage, i suppose), could the gov't enforce 'imminent domain', seize the buildings and have the gov't run the hospitals?[/quote]

Eminent domain is a long, difficult process. I mean, unless we're talking about sending the military in to seize buildings. And, I think that's getting awfully far-fetched.

[quote name='HollyDolly' post='1690118' date='Oct 31 2008, 05:29 PM']You say IF this happens that the Church should close their doors,and they should refuse to re open them unlessthey are allowed to refuse abortion.LET THE WHOLE POPULACE DIE OF SICKNESS,AT LEAST BABIES WON"T BE DYING OF MURDER.
But wouldn't the Church be commiting murder if it did that? By advocating such a thought wouldn't that make someone guilty of genecide?Not of any particular race, but of all men,women AND CHILDREN ALL READY BORN AND GROWING?Of the elderly, the handicapped or others who are hurt,injured or in life threating situations?
Do you really think this will stop abortions? They have been around since the dawn of time and will continue to be unless men and women refrain from sexual activity outside of marriage.[/quote]

Being unavailable to treat someone is not murder.

Injecting someone with poison and/or ripping them limb from limb is murder.

Easy choice, as far as I see it.

[Apotheoun]

The Catholic Church (through its hospitals and other agencies) should simply refuse to obey this unjust law, and should the federal government harass the Church (i.e., her bishops, doctors, nurses, et al), open rebellion against an oppressive and illegitimate government may be necessary in order to defend human rights and dignity.

[Apotheoun]

[size=3]Then the king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, one of whom was named Shiph'rah and the other Pu'ah, "When you serve as midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the birthstool, if it is a son, you shall kill him; but if it is a daughter, she shall live." [i][b]But the midwives feared God, and did not do as the king of Egypt commanded them[/b][/i], but let the male children live.

[Exodus 1:15-17][/size]

[Saint Therese]

Our society isn't going to be reformed through political process;it will only be transformed when we as Catholics start living our Faith as we should.There the blame begins and ends.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='HollyDolly' post='1690118' date='Oct 31 2008, 06:29 PM']You say IF this happens that the Church should close their doors,and they should refuse to re open them unlessthey are allowed to refuse abortion.LET THE WHOLE POPULACE DIE OF SICKNESS,AT LEAST BABIES WON"T BE DYING OF MURDER.
But wouldn't the Church be commiting murder if it did that? By advocating such a thought wouldn't that make someone guilty of genecide?Not of any particular race, but of all men,women AND CHILDREN ALL READY BORN AND GROWING?Of the elderly, the handicapped or others who are hurt,injured or in life threating situations?
Do you really think this will stop abortions? They have been around since the dawn of time and will continue to be unless men and women refrain from sexual activity outside of marriage.[/quote]
refusing treatment is not the same as actively murdering. it is better that the elderly, handicapped, sick and injured in life threatening situations simply lose access to the medical help that is necessary for them if it keeps us from having to murder babies. the ends do not justify the means; the way to keep the hospitals open would include allowing abortion in the hospitals... that is an evil means, and even if everyone in the country died of sicknesses as a result of refusing to do it, we would have to refuse.

but again, refusing treatment is not murder; we would have no moral means by which to treat people if it were against the law to do so.

it is better to allow sick people to die of their sickness because we do not have the moral and legal capability to treat them (but then, they had the chance to live outside the womb and make decisions and have lives for a while at least) than to murder.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1690160' date='Oct 31 2008, 06:40 PM']The Catholic Church (through its hospitals and other agencies) should simply refuse to obey this unjust law, and should the federal government harass the Church (i.e., her bishops, doctors, nurses, et al), open rebellion against an oppressive and illegitimate government may be necessary in order to defend human rights and dignity.[/quote]

I'm all for open rebellion.

But seriously, I remember having a conversation with some law enforcement guys from TN and TX at a conference on homeland security issues. They were very, very adamant that there are still parts of America where citizens won't hesitate to do what they have to do to defend our freedoms and values. These men were Baptist Christians, too. It was very heartening to see this kind of fighting spirit in today's climate of blind complacency and eager acceptance of lies and corruption. Some people would call them militant, but there was nothing radical about them. They were very calm and very self-assured.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='HollyDolly' post='1690118' date='Oct 31 2008, 05:29 PM']You say IF this happens that the Church should close their doors,and they should refuse to re open them unlessthey are allowed to refuse abortion.LET THE WHOLE POPULACE DIE OF SICKNESS,AT LEAST BABIES WON"T BE DYING OF MURDER.
But wouldn't the Church be commiting murder if it did that? By advocating such a thought wouldn't that make someone guilty of genecide?Not of any particular race, but of all men,women AND CHILDREN ALL READY BORN AND GROWING?Of the elderly, the handicapped or others who are hurt,injured or in life threating situations?
Do you really think this will stop abortions? They have been around since the dawn of time and will continue to be unless men and women refrain from sexual activity outside of marriage.[/quote]


We can't commit an evil in order to bring about a good. It's immoral just the same.

While it is true that abortion has always been around and always will be (it's a form of murder, after all). But that doesn't mean a nation, a society, a government, or any organization should sanction it and give approval to it. The fact that we live in a nation where abortion is not punished to the fullest extent of the law is the second greatest human rights violation on earth. The first being abortion itself. Secondary to that is the fact that government and law doesn't defend or protect the victim and even denies the victim justice.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1690195' date='Oct 31 2008, 07:51 PM']Our society isn't going to be reformed through political process;it will only be transformed when we as Catholics start living our Faith as we should.There the blame begins and ends.[/quote]


Maybe. But personally I think we're all about to endure a tribulation first.

[Saint Therese]

If a certain politician is elected, it will be by popular choice.
How can we "endure a tribulation" that we've caused, cooperated in, and have done nothing really to stop?

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1690255' date='Oct 31 2008, 09:28 PM']If a certain politician is elected, it will be by popular choice.
How can we "endure a tribulation" that we've caused, cooperated in, and have done nothing really to stop?[/quote]


I wasn't disagreeing with you. A person or people can endure a tribulation through their own fault. Another word for it might be punishment but I don't prefer to think of God has striking and smoting and punishing. But he'll teach a lesson where one is needed, that is for sure. For our own good, of course.