At What Point Is The Eucharist So Broken Down Into Its Components That

[Arpy]

My apologies if this is better suited to the Super Happy Dialogue Corner.

As you might have guessed by the title, I've been wondering when exactly, if ever, the components that make up the Eucharist deteriorate so far as to no longer be the body and blood of Christ, partly due to rampant curiosity, and partly because the notion of excreting our Savior as waste products is rather distasteful in my opinion. Are all of its components miraculously absorbed into the body? Does some of it really get flushed down the toilet? Or am I just being too squeamish? After all, God did design our bodies a certain way. Thoughts?

Edit: Oh dear, the title seems to have been cut off. Well, I trust you can get the gist of it.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Arpy

[CatherineM]

In the sacristy is a special sink called a sacrarium that is not attached to the sewer system. It discharges into a underground drainage field. All the vessels and purificators are washed there, thereby "burying" our Lord, not discharging him into the sewer system. As an example, when a chalice was spilled, we placed purificators down on the carpet so no one would tread there. After mass we soaked with water and bloated until there was nothing left. All that water was placed in the sacrarium, and all the blotting cloths were cleaned there as well.

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
as far as i know, i've always heard that the accidents are 'active' (can't think of the word i want to use) for 15 minutes after receiving, then are absorbed into our system. somebody smarter will come along, i'm sure.

[Aloysius]

so long as it has the accidents of bread, it has the substance of our savior. when it ceases to have the accidents of bread, it ceases to have the substance of our savior (the substance of the savior is absorbed into the substance of the person receiving just as the accidents of bread are absorbed into our bodies)... so as soon as the bread is digested, the molecular level is no longer where the special presence of Our Lord is... and the special presence of Our Lord certainly doesn't go through the intestines and into the toilet; the fifteen minute number is a good rough estimate according to human anatomy and bioogy, though you don't consider Christ to have "left" you after that time, He simply ceases to be present through bread and begins to be present through you yourself.

[LouisvilleFan]

I've heard the 15 minute thing too, which I'm sure is an approximation. It's pretty cool to think, though, that all of us leave Mass as living tabernacles.

The rule thumb is dilution: whenever the accidents are diluted beyond recognition, they are no longer Eucharist.

[Arpy]

I think that's answered my question, thanks. CatherineM, your post wasn't directly related to my question, but I found it very interesting. I didn't know that about the sacrarium and all.

[Ziggamafu]

Interesting. I was under the impression that the Real Presence is maintained only so long as one may visibly discern the accidents; as in, if a bread crumb is seen to be a bread crumb, it is not a bread crumb, it is Jesus. If the particle cannot be discerned to be bread (in appearence), then it is not Jesus, it is bread.

Aloysius, are you sure about the Presence at the molecular level?

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1726408' date='Dec 12 2008, 10:36 AM']Interesting. I was under the impression that the Real Presence is maintained only so long as one may visibly discern the accidents; as in, if a bread crumb is seen to be a bread crumb, it is not a bread crumb, it is Jesus. If the particle cannot be discerned to be bread (in appearence), then it is not Jesus, it is bread.

Aloysius, are you sure about the Presence at the molecular level?[/quote]

How can it be bread if you can't discern it to be bread?

[Aloysius]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1726408' date='Dec 12 2008, 10:36 AM']Interesting. I was under the impression that the Real Presence is maintained only so long as one may visibly discern the accidents; as in, if a bread crumb is seen to be a bread crumb, it is not a bread crumb, it is Jesus. If the particle cannot be discerned to be bread (in appearence), then it is not Jesus, it is bread.

Aloysius, are you sure about the Presence at the molecular level?[/quote]
so long as the Eucharist has the accidents of bread, it is Christ. if you cannot discern those accidents, there is no need to worry about it, it can be presumed that the accidents have been dissolved. but if we could take a molecule and really say "this molecule is bread" (though I do not believe that is possible, and in any event there is no "bread" molecule) then it would still have the True Presence... I don't know where you got the molecular level thing from what I said; so long as the accidents are bread then the substance is Christ, that's the rule of thumb.

edit: aha, re-read and saw I used "molecular level", in that the molecules are no longer where the special presence of Christ is as His presence has been absorbed into your being, the molecules which have been broken up and divided through the body do not hold His presence because they do not have the accidents of bread.

[Ziggamafu]

The reason I bring it up is because I hear people, from time to time, speak of regurgitated (disolved) hosts or miniscule flakes (or particles that can float, even) as having the Real Presence; this to me is not correct, since in none of these cases would you be able to distinguish it as bread as opposed to something else.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1726761' date='Dec 12 2008, 08:40 PM']The reason I bring it up is because I hear people, from time to time, speak of regurgitated (disolved) hosts or miniscule flakes (or particles that can float, even) as having the Real Presence; this to me is not correct, since in none of these cases would you be able to distinguish it as bread as opposed to something else.[/quote]


I think that this is a devotional practice; a lot like how the Priest used to keep his index finger and thumb pressed together during Mass to avoid dropping any particles that might be on his them .. as long as those concerns/practices are expressions of devotion and respect and not done out of scrupulosity, then I think its commendable, if not strictly necessary.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1726761' date='Dec 12 2008, 08:40 PM']The reason I bring it up is because I hear people, from time to time, speak of regurgitated (disolved) hosts or miniscule flakes (or particles that can float, even) as having the Real Presence; this to me is not correct, since in none of these cases would you be able to distinguish it as bread as opposed to something else.[/quote]

Hmm... discerning Christ in our vomit... I think that mental image summarizes the value of this "devotion."

I'd rather be concerned about whether one can discern Christ in myself. That is the point, after all, of sharing Holy Communion with our God.

Edited December 15, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1728083' date='Dec 15 2008, 01:27 AM']Hmm... discerning Christ in our vomit... I think that mental image summarizes the value of this "devotion."

I'd rather be concerned about whether one can discern Christ in myself. That is the point, after all, of sharing Holy Communion with our God.[/quote]

If one vomits and can recognize the accidents of bread, then it should be buried in the ground. The respect due to the Blessed Sacrament demands it.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1729831' date='Dec 16 2008, 06:28 PM']If one vomits and can recognize the accidents of bread, then it should be buried in the ground. The respect due to the Blessed Sacrament demands it.[/quote]

Ziggamafu was talking about dissolved hosts, which would not be recognizeable. Particles floating in the air? Seriously...