American Muslim Threatens Us Over Support For Israel

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1748841' date='Jan 11 2009, 05:52 PM']It's the hard reality.[/quote]


Too hard for some, I suppose.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Luthien' post='1748836' date='Jan 11 2009, 05:43 PM']Regardless, Christian charity should be used, not offhand comments on how what someone thinks doesn't matter.[/quote]

First of all, I said YOU OR I. That means US. Secondly, the comment was in reference to the numerous videos being posted--as the person commented--and the ease with which we all tend to start ignoring reality when something becomes repetitious. I would recommend that instead of jumping into a thread to point fingers of accusation against Christian charity, that you might try to offer something to the topic yourself. Thanks.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Luthien' post='1748765' date='Jan 11 2009, 02:46 PM']Gee, I guess one cannot even make a comment that [b]is[/b] on topic unless you approve. Goodness me.[/quote]

It's not my problem that the entire meaning of my statement went completely over your head. But please stop hijacking the thread to make comments of complaint about it (which you've done at least three times already). Not only was the comment not directed at you (and therefore, I'm not sure how it concerns you so much that you had to complain about it in three posts) but also, you have not contributed anything to the topic. Why in the world would a person come into a thread that is 6 pages long of discussions just to accuse someone of being "uncharitable"? To take the focus off the discussions maybe? Two regulators have already posted in this thread to ask that hijacking be stopped, so please respect that.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Madame Vengier

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1748751' date='Jan 11 2009, 01:56 PM']What exactly about the world "cannot be ignored"?[/quote]

Don't ask me questions that you know the answer too, Hassan. What was the poster referring to when he/she made the comment about threats against the U.S. on videos? THREATS AGAINST THE U.S. ON VIDEOS.

[Hassan]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1748786' date='Jan 11 2009, 03:46 PM']I misspoke before; you are not [i]defending[/i] terrorism, you are trying to [i]justify[/i] it.[/quote]

No, no I am not. I have not tried to justify terrorism, I do not, and I will not. I have been very, very clear on this point.

[i]"Let me be absolutely clear. Any form of terrorism is wrong. I don’t care if it is by Black Star, Al Quaida, Jewish Underground, IRA, Hamas, Israel, the United States, United Nations personnel, or angry nuns etc. Any brutalization of a civilian population is unambiguously wrong, the end."[/i]

[quote]Honestly, whether or not a group or a country has a legitimate grievance, resorting to domestic or international terrorism - remember that [u]harming civilains[/u] is included in both definitions - is despicable and should not be tolerated.[/quote]

I agree without reservation. This is why I condemn both Hamas' attack on Israeli civilians and Israel's brutal collective punishment on the people of Gaza through their present military action and draconian blockade and other past actions (well documented by the Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem). If you truly believe this, as I do, then I do not see how you can possibly defend Israel's action. I am not opposed to your moral condemnation for Hamas, on the contrary I am with you here, I just condemn making exceptions for Israel's respective brutalization of civilian populations. Both the Palestinians and Israeli's have legitimate grievances here, but neither's government has avoided reporting to terrorism to amend these grievances.

[quote]Do you even realize what would happen if the government then gave the terrorist organization everything they demanded on a silver platter? How that actually [b]encourages[/b] future terrorism by showing other organizations that as soon as you start blowing up innocents in the middle of a crowded street, the government will cater to you?[/quote]

Which is why I would suggest avoiding the oppressive economic and political structures that give rise to terrorism in the first place.

[quote]If there is a legitimate grievance, behave like a civilized human being. If war is necessary, let it be a just war.[/quote]

Alright.



[quote]I would have to say "no" for the obvious reasons. An individual may be teaching a group of young adults how to go about blowing up a street full of people; the teacher is not directly participating in the slaughter but is still incredibly involved and is a huge factor of influence and encouragement.[/quote]

alright




[quote]My broad use of "lunatics" was fueled by emotion regarding the atrocities committed by terrorists, particularly (but certainly not limited to) what occurred in our very country on 9-11.[/quote]

I certainly understand that.

[quote]Oftentimes one associates the word "lunatic" with an individual who is mentally ill, dangerous, and unpredictable. It is very, very easy to call a terrorist a lunatic especially when we marvel how a person can be so evil, so - irrational, so - insane. Because to us who are encouraged to seek peace over violence and love over hate [regardless of religion], these people are insane.[/quote]

Who is "us"? Catholic Christians? Americans?

[quote]But then when we examine and study terrorism from a psychological perspective we see that terrorists are, in fact, rational [i]in the sense that[/i] they think rationally (even if their behaviors may be irrational).

This is somewhat "up my alley" as I am interested in criminal psychology.

The following are excerpts from [url="http://whyfiles.org/140terror_psych/index.html"]http://whyfiles.org/140terror_psych/index.html[/url] :

[b] For 30 years, Rona Fields, a Washington, D.C. psychologist, has been psychologically testing terrorists and paramilitaries from Northern Ireland, Israel, the West Bank, Lebanon, Southeast Asia, and Africa. She thinks today's suicide terrorists share the still-born moral and emotional development she saw in the Khmer Rouge, who created a bloodbath in Cambodia during the late 1970s. "Their definition of right and wrong is very black-and-white, and is directed by an uthoritative director," says Fields. "There's a total limitation of the capacity to think for themselves."

A terrorist develops gradually from a young age, Fields says. The boys (typically aged 10 to 16) who are easist to recruit for suicide terrorism are "at the stage of development of moral judgment called retributive justice or vendetta." This "an eye for an eye" stage of emotional development was described by the Swiss psychologist Jean Piaget, she adds. [/b]

Pertinent to our discussion :

[b] In contrast to the popular sense that suicidal terrorists are sociopathic whackos, many experts argue that they are effectively pursuing their goals.

"They are rational, they are not insane," says Richard Pearlstein, associate professor of political science at Southeastern Oklahoma State University. "They have goals and they are moving towards those goals."

Not only are terrorists not crazy, but they don't share a personality type, wrote David Long, former assistant director of the State Department's Office of Counter Terrorism. "No comparative work on terrorist psychology has ever succeeded in revealing a particular psychological type or uniform terrorist mindset."

Still, Long wrote that terrorists tend to have low self-esteem, are attracted to groups with charismatic leaders, and, not surprisingly, enjoy risk. Oddly, Long concluded that many terrorists are ambivalent about violence and guns (see "The Anatomy..." in the [bibliography - link]). [/b]

The last bit is incredibly interesting, in my opinion.

To continue, this link provides study of suicidal bombers : [url="http://whyfiles.org/140terror_psych/2.html"]http://whyfiles.org/140terror_psych/2.html[/url]

Another site I have to provide is : [url="http://www.ssrc.org/sept11/essays/mccauley.htm"]http://www.ssrc.org/sept11/essays/mccauley.htm[/url]
[i]The Psychology of Terrorism[/i] by Clark R. McCauley, Professor of Psychology, Bryn Mawr College.

He defines terrorism (just as I have stated he, too, emphasizes the involvement of civilians):



This is also a long article to post, so I will include snippets and trust you look at it on your own.







Thank you if you take the time to read all that.[/quote]

Thanks a lot. I read all of your selections and some of the article. I found most of it very interesting and will bookmark it. I have heard an interesting book by Norwegian journalist Asne Seierstad is out about the role of children and their integration into terrorist groups and militant movements; it is based of her reporting in Chechnya and looks at the war’s impact on the orphan’s of the region. It is “The Angle of Grozny” if you are interested.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1748882' date='Jan 11 2009, 07:36 PM']Don't ask me questions that you know the answer too, Hassan. What was the poster referring to when he/she made the comment about threats against the U.S. on videos? THREATS AGAINST THE U.S. ON VIDEOS.[/quote]


I am amazed at how many individuals are able to read my mind here. I did not know the answer to the question otherwise I would not have asked it. Thanks you for clarifying. Now my question is what inference would you like individuals to draw from this article.

[Brother Adam]

This comes from a Catholic living in Israel, just miles away from rocket attacks. I have been asked to with hold his name for his own safety.

[quote]As someone living about 40 miles away from where the rockets are falling – I would certainly say that it’s a just war. I’m really troubled by the number of Palestinian victims and the suffering that the war is bringing onto them, and angry that Hamas brought this on their own people with total contempt not only for Israeli lives, but for the lives of Palestinians too. The atmosphere is very heavy here, because it seems there will never be an end to this mess.

See the following two videos for a perspective on how the war is being fought and how Hamas is violating all rules of warfare according to international law.

[url="http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=42876108702&oid=41135539377&ref=nf"]http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=...9377&ref=nf[/url]

[url="http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=58&ar=HamasExploitationofCiviliansV&ak=null"]http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=...nsV&ak=null[/url]

As says Golda Meir at the end of the second video:

“We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.”

I really recommend that you all subscribe to an email info service such as

[url="http://www.honestreporting.com/"]http://www.honestreporting.com/[/url]

or ICEJ News Service (Evangelical Christian)

It’s really important for Catholics to be in tune with what’s happening here, because it will eventually have repercussions on the whole world (it already is)

Blessings to all...[/quote]

[Hassan]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1748972' date='Jan 11 2009, 09:06 PM']This comes from a Catholic living in Israel, just miles away from rocket attacks. I have been asked to with hold his name for his own safety.[/quote]

do you know this individual personally?

[Luthien]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1748873' date='Jan 11 2009, 09:23 PM']What?? What part do you think is uncharitable, the part about reality or the part about not ignoring it?

And that's a rhetorical question.[/quote]


[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1748876' date='Jan 11 2009, 09:27 PM']First of all, I said YOU OR I. That means US. Secondly, the comment was in reference to the numerous videos being posted--as the person commented--and the ease with which we all tend to start ignoring reality when something becomes repetitious. I would recommend that instead of jumping into a thread to point fingers of accusation against Christian charity, that you might try to offer something to the topic yourself. Thanks.[/quote]


[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1748878' date='Jan 11 2009, 09:31 PM']It's not my problem that the entire meaning of my statement went completely over your head. But please stop hijacking the thread to make comments of complaint about it (which you've done at least three times already). Not only was the comment not directed at you (and therefore, I'm not sure how it concerns you so much that you had to complain about it in three posts) but also, you have not contributed anything to the topic. Why in the world would a person come into a thread that is 6 pages long of discussions just to accuse someone of being "uncharitable"? To take the focus off the discussions maybe? Two regulators have already posted in this thread to ask that hijacking be stopped, so please respect that.[/quote]

I guess I misunderstood your tone.

This thread topic makes me afraid to be around during these times. The hate some people have for others is truely frightening. Are we safe here? I also don't understand why he has citizenship here in America, wouldn't these types of threats make that moot? This makes it hard to believe that Islam is a peaceful religion.

Edited January 12, 2009 by Luthien

[Hassan]

[quote name='Luthien' post='1749085' date='Jan 11 2009, 10:48 PM']I guess I misunderstood your tone.

This thread topic makes me afraid to be around during these times. The hate some people have for others is truely frightening. Are we safe here? I also don't understand why he has citizenship here in America, wouldn't these types of threats make that moot? This makes it hard to believe that Islam is a peaceful religion.[/quote]

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Luthien' post='1749085' date='Jan 11 2009, 10:48 PM']I guess I misunderstood your tone.[/quote]

Uh, [i]yeah[/i].