A Little Story...

[Blanket Maker]

[quote name='journeyman' post='1760119' date='Jan 24 2009, 11:30 AM']The Baltimore Catechism is a publication intended to educate those young in the faith of the Church in the tenets of the faith of the Church. Published in 3 or 4 age-appropriate versions, it was premised on the question and answer format presented in the first response. For a more comprehensive teaching document, less geared to rote memorization, the Church issued a new Catechism, which can be found at the Vatican website, various other websites, and bookstores.
[url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm"]http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm[/url]

Does this answer your first question?[/quote]

Yes it does, thank you very much.

[Blanket Maker]

[quote name='picchick' post='1760250' date='Jan 24 2009, 02:36 PM']I am not particularily interested in one pope really. I just find it interesting that they trace back to Peter. They were some unruly ones. As I tell people, there were "bad" popes but when they spoke out on faith and morals, their teachings were correct.

The "vote" is not like our voting system in america. It includes a great deal of prayer. Cardinals do the voting process. I am not sure how much of the last "election" you watched on TV and the such. It takes days. I am not completely familiar with the process but I believe that they have discussions (hopefully with coffee), prayer, fasting (I guess there goes the coffee hope) and voting. They must agree. THat is why you so much black smoke. They didn't agree.

I think that there are more people on phatmass who can better answer that question though for you.

Yes, the Church has a rich history, that is for sure. We started out and are still here after so many years. There were down times and high times. Yet through it all we are still here. To me that is also amazing. I suggest that if you are interested in the history of the Church you pick up a book on it. I can only recommend ones that I used in school. However, it is really interesting about the turmoil that the Church went through and the makings of great saints in the process.

Meg[/quote]

Thank you for your response, nice to see an open mind in answering as well as the occasional humor.

I agree 100% no the idea of unruly popes being unjust except on matters of the faith.

However, I do disagree with your closing statements, and glad that I do. I beleive, personally the church dealt with and caused great turmoil, as well as made some great saints as well as non.

[Blanket Maker]

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Edited January 25, 2009 by Blanket Maker

[Blanket Maker]

[quote name='philothea' post='1760274' date='Jan 24 2009, 02:57 PM']Whoops, that was a typo. "You haven't perhaps actually [b]read[/b] much."


I really think, in all seriousness, that reading gospel which I linked to first is essential. The origin and historical setting can be discussed later, but doing that first is a needless complication. It's perfectly understandable as is.



I specifically picked Wikipedia because it cannot be considered to have any institutional bias. Technical accuracy and scholarship is not that important in this discussion. We're not writing a thesis, just setting groundwork. If you're asking someone to do your homework, I'm sorry, this isn't going to work out. (Joking.) (Pretty much. )



When you start to consider Christianity specifically, there are many different denomination which claim to be "the true church" and those claims are mutually exclusive.
.
And I'm not sure what you mean by speed being an issue, but [i]time[/i] certainly is an issue for me. You're asking for explanations which took two solid years of full-time research for me. I'm glad to try pointing you in a direction and answer specific questions when you have them, but I do not have the time to spell out every thing.



1) Because Catholic origins are fully documented from the earliest years, from many different sources.

2) I believe that beauty points the way toward truth.[/quote]

I have attempted on several occasions, spanning the years, to comprehend and understand the messages and ideals presented in the Catholic Churches 21th century bible, but have been unable to, due to a severe inability and lack of comfort in interpreting grave matter with my own bias, as well as the lack of a common belief from the same articles in the intellectual circles I encounter through time.

I do not find the gospels perfectly understandable as they are. Unfortunately for me, such things are not so clear, that is why I ask for origins and background, after all the best stories include more than the punchline. I am sorry I can not comprehend in the way you do, some things are harder to understand when not brought up in an "immersed culture'.

I do apologize, but I must disagree with your comment regarding the validity of groundwork. I believe near above all else, scholarship and technical accuracy are of the utmost importance, after all, when you have a clear foundation, the structure will be sound at it's base, whereas a such base will only yield in the heat of a properly aimed question.

I am sorry to hear of your time constraints, I do hope you write when you wish, and in no other prompt. I will keep looking for people to spell these issues and topic out. So than you for teh time you have given already, and I wish you well in your endeavors.

[Blanket Maker]

[quote name='journeyman' post='1760122' date='Jan 24 2009, 11:41 AM']4th question





An excellent question, discussed, debated and attempted to be defined by scholars, theologians and mystics for centuries. In this forum, we will probably never be able to pin it down exactly. Is a definition necessary to your initial question? A portion of Catholic teaching on the topic can be found in the Catechism

II. "BODY AND SOUL BUT TRULY ONE"

362 The human person, created in the image of God, is a being at once corporeal and spiritual. The biblical account expresses this reality in symbolic language when it affirms that "then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being." (fn229) Man, whole and entire, is therefore willed by God.

363 In Sacred Scripture the term "soul" often refers to human life or the entire human person.(fn230) But "soul" also refers to the innermost aspect of man, that which is of greatest value in him,(fn231) that by which he is most especially in God's image: "soul" signifies the spiritual principle in man.

364 The human body shares in the dignity of "the image of God": it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit:(fn232)

Man, though made of body and soul, is a unity. Through his very bodily condition he sums up in himself the elements of the material world. Through him they are thus brought to their highest perfection and can raise their voice in praise freely given to the Creator. For this reason man may not despise his bodily life. Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honor since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day. (fn233)

365 The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the "form" of the body:(fn234) i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature.

(I have not provided the text of the footntes, which may be viewed here:
[url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p6.htm)"]http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p6.htm)[/url][/quote]

I thank you for the passage, but ask you to please put it into your own words, for I do struggle greatly to interpret the modern interpretations, of ancient interpretations, of scribes long gone.

From what I can tell, the soul is an abstract object though known to exsist through word of mouth and the belief of such and existence as well. How this is believed I can not figure on my own, how is it that you believe in a soul? And how is it you define your own soul?

Thank you for your time!

[Blanket Maker]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1760123' date='Jan 24 2009, 11:43 AM']What do you mean by the term "God"?[/quote]

Not the Catholic God, nor any specific god, but the idea of a 'superior being' or entity of sorts. Again the "Idea", not the belief of.

[Blanket Maker]

[quote name='journeyman' post='1760127' date='Jan 24 2009, 11:53 AM']Question 5 and 6




All things appears to include objects as well as things - in asking the question, you answered it.





Before gender neutrality became a hot button topic, and in light of the paternalistic shorthand which is somewhat encouraged by the English language, Man was the equivalent of human. Contextual use helps determine if the word is to be used in a universal sense or a specific sense.
A woman is the feminine gender of Man. A man is the masculine gender of Man.

From the Catechism
369 Man and woman have been created, which is to say, willed by God: on the one hand, in perfect equality as human persons; on the other, in their respective beings as man and woman. "Being man" or "being woman" is a reality which is good and willed by God: man and woman possess an inalienable dignity which comes to them immediately from God their Creator. (fn240) Man and woman are both with one and the same dignity "in the image of God". In their "being-man" and "being-woman", they reflect the Creator's wisdom and goodness.


Are questions five and six answered?[/quote]

Could you please rephrase your answer, "All things appears to include objects as well as things - in asking the question, you answered it." perhaps use a more descriptive word than 'things' for those get rather mixed in object, quickly.

You response for defining "man" was grand, I find, however, the Cathecism, makes no sense what so ever, it appears as if offer two options of which the reader is to decide, yours is better defined. So thank you for your own words, as I can only help but disregard the commonly cited words. After all I came here for a personal opinion, not a reference desk.

So thank you for your personal response.

[Blanket Maker]

[quote name='MithLuin' post='1760231' date='Jan 24 2009, 02:19 PM'][b]Blanket Maker[/b], I understand that you wish for us to explain things without assuming anything about your background or prior knowledge or understanding. It is difficult to talk to someone in such an impersonal setting about such a broad topic. Hopefully, as the dialogue progresses, we will understand what interests you, and can address particular concerns.


The way I introduce the faith to people is by inviting them to see how to live a life that includes prayer. I am a teacher, and I begin each class with a prayer. I use the same one throughout the year, so that the students have an opportunity to memorize a prayer that they will have at their fingertips later in life, should they want it.

When I go to a restaurant or eat out, I say grace before meals. I would do it anyway, but I hope that others see that it is okay to pray in public.


Faith is about trust in God. It is about living a life of hope. Hope for change, that our past mistakes need not determine our future life, and that this life is not the end. Christians often speak of redemption and salvation. Redemption is spiritual healing. It is something available to all of us. We all have hurts and regrets in life, but redemption allows us to become new people, by the power of God. I've never met anyone who is perfect, but I have met many people who have been healed from mistakes and bad choices they made when they were younger. That is what redemption is about - putting trust in God, and as a result, lives are turned around, changed. Salvation takes an even longer view - looking to our ultimate destiny of being united with God in heaven, of being fully known by Him and taking part in the divine life of God by sharing in the love of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

There is not much point in discussing the specifics (which popes did what) if a person does not have an understanding of the basics of the Christian faith. I do not think anything I wrote thus far was specifically Catholic, but rather just starting with the human experience, of what life is all about.[/quote]

I first must thank you for the career you have chosen, a person helping to better educate the human race far surpasses that of any other profession in my eyes, (even my own). It is a challenging, though most beneficial career I have ever studied.

And more so, know you "practice what you teach' stands for great integrity for your work, commendable indeed. For experience is the greatest teacher.

someone in such an impersonal setting about such a broad topic. Hopefully, as the dialogs progresses, we will understand what interests you, and can address particular concerns.


The way I introduce the faith to people is by inviting them to see how to live a life that includes prayer. I am a teacher, and I begin each class with a prayer. I use the same one throughout the year, so that the students have an opportunity to memorize a prayer that they will have at their fingertips later in life, should they want it.

When I go to a restaurant or eat out, I say grace before meals. I would do it anyway, but I hope that others see that it is okay to pray in public.


I find, in daily living, it is a life of hope, or else I would not be motivted to wake up in the morning. I have faith the ground below my feet will not give way, and faith the sun shall rise again.

This life is not the end, I find that terrifying more than comforting but thats a whole different topic altogether. Unless you refer to the progress and advancements made in the individuals life, that carries on after death, that I do believe in.

Thank you very much for your response, and I do as well hope to figure out what it is I year to learn, in just elementary discussions and conversations.
So thank you for acknowledging that!

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Blanket Maker' post='1760991' date='Jan 25 2009, 02:32 AM']Not the Catholic God, nor any specific god, but the idea of a 'superior being' or entity of sorts. Again the "Idea", not the belief of.[/quote]
If you beleive in a superior being, in what way is he or she superior to man?

I believe in God, who is outside of the universe and time, much as an author is outside the play he has written.

[Blanket Maker]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1761678' date='Jan 25 2009, 08:06 PM']If you beleive in a superior being, in what way is he or she superior to man?

I believe in God, who is outside of the universe and time, much as an author is outside the play he has written.[/quote]

They created something from nothing. that is how they are superior to humans.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Blanket Maker' post='1761790' date='Jan 25 2009, 10:41 PM']They created something from nothing. that is how they are superior to humans.[/quote]
Do you assume that humans were created as well, or evolved?

[Blanket Maker]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1762615' date='Jan 26 2009, 05:30 PM']Do you assume that humans were created as well, or evolved?[/quote]
I believe in both. I believe humans were created as well as they have evolved, the same as the common cold does every single year.

Frankly, I don't care where we came from and for what reason, it all seems superficial.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Blanket Maker' post='1765133' date='Jan 28 2009, 10:55 PM']I believe in both. I believe humans were created as well as they have evolved, the same as the common cold does every single year.

Frankly, I don't care where we came from and for what reason, it all seems superficial.[/quote]
We do care where we came from and for what reason because it some bearing on where we are going.

We believe we were created by God because we are loved.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1762615' date='Jan 26 2009, 05:30 PM']Do you assume that humans were created as well, or evolved?[/quote]
Cmom, unless I am gravely mistaken, it is not against Church teaching to believe both.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1765284' date='Jan 29 2009, 12:33 AM']Cmom, unless I am gravely mistaken, it is not against Church teaching to believe both.[/quote]
O I know that, I am trying to get a feel on what blanketmaker believes. Its hard to dialogue with a blank slate.