kafka Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 (edited) Are there rules for interpreting Scripture? What are the limits for interpreting Scripture? What are some guides in interpreting Scripture? Should an average lay person attempt to interpret Scripture? This debate/discussion is welcome to Catholics and Protestants alike. It does not matter what educational background you were given. I even want to hear from those who never considered these questions, and perhaps why (through no fault of your own) you never considered them. For I once never considered these, and I was wrong not to. Please share with me your ideas/insights, and I will share mine with you. . . Edited January 24, 2009 by kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Since I have been interested in Apologetics, it has been my understanding that you can interpret passages as long as they do not conflict with Church teaching, but I really dunno. ---------------- Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/harry+gregson-williams/track/the+wardrobe"]Harry Gregson-Williams - The Wardrobe[/url] via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Various special roles in interpretation belong to clergy, catechists, exegetes and others (III.B.3.i). Church authority is responsible to see that interpretation remains faithful to the Gospel and the Great Tradition, and the Magisterium exercises a role of final authority if occasion requires it (I.C.1.g). Exegesis is a theological discipline, which exists in a relationship of dialogue with other branches of theology (III.D.a). Catholic Principles for Interpreting Scripture: A Study of the Pontifical Biblical Commission's "The Interpretation of the Bible in the Church." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 10...But the task of authentically interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on, (8) has been entrusted exclusively to the living teaching office of the Church, (9) whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ. This teaching office is not above the word of God, but serves it, teaching only what has been handed on, listening to it devoutly, guarding it scrupulously and explaining it faithfully in accord with a divine commission and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it draws from this one deposit of faith everything which it presents for belief as divinely revealed. From Dei Verbum. It can be accessed on the Vatican website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1759800' date='Jan 23 2009, 10:16 PM']Various special roles in interpretation belong to clergy, catechists, exegetes and others (III.B.3.i). Church authority is responsible to see that interpretation remains faithful to the Gospel and the Great Tradition, and the Magisterium exercises a role of final authority if occasion requires it (I.C.1.g). Exegesis is a theological discipline, which exists in a relationship of dialogue with other branches of theology (III.D.a). Catholic Principles for Interpreting Scripture: A Study of the Pontifical Biblical Commission's "The Interpretation of the Bible in the Church."[/quote] [quote name='CatherineM' post='1759846' date='Jan 23 2009, 10:42 PM']10...But the task of authentically interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on, (8) has been entrusted exclusively to the living teaching office of the Church, (9) whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ. This teaching office is not above the word of God, but serves it, teaching only what has been handed on, listening to it devoutly, guarding it scrupulously and explaining it faithfully in accord with a divine commission and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it draws from this one deposit of faith everything which it presents for belief as divinely revealed. From Dei Verbum. It can be accessed on the Vatican website.[/quote] Your copy and pastes, fall under a couple of my questions. I am familiar with Dei Verbum. I would have liked you to give your own answers, in your own words, and using Dei Verbum as an illumination, rather than you just copying and pasting a few answers to my questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='kafka' post='1760024' date='Jan 24 2009, 12:26 AM']Your copy and pastes, fall under a couple of my questions. I am familiar with Dei Verbum. I would have liked you to give your own answers, in your own words, and using Dei Verbum as an illumination, rather than you just copying and pasting a few answers to my questions.[/quote] I cut and pasted, because you have never cared to hear my words on these topics or any other member of Phatmass with a solid theological background. You have never been open to hearing the opinions of my professors, or other recognized theologians. I thought perhaps if I copied rather than giving you a brief on what I learned in grad school, or undergrad theology on the topic of Dei Verbum, that you might be more willing to accept it. All I will say, again, is that the type of interpretation of sacred scripture that you attempt is best left to sacred scripture scholars. It is never too late for you to return to school and acquire the proper background in theology to do the type of interpretation that you yearn to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 (edited) [quote name='CatherineM' post='1760029' date='Jan 24 2009, 01:34 AM']I cut and pasted, because you have never cared to hear my words on these topics or any other member of Phatmass with a solid theological background. You have never been open to hearing the opinions of my professors, or other recognized theologians. I thought perhaps if I copied rather than giving you a brief on what I learned in grad school, or undergrad theology on the topic of Dei Verbum, that you might be more willing to accept it. All I will say, again, is that the type of interpretation of sacred scripture that you attempt is best left to sacred scripture scholars. It is never too late for you to return to school and acquire the proper background in theology to do the type of interpretation that you yearn to do.[/quote] You should have known. You should have known that I wouldnt be willing to accept the above. I really do not care about "solid theoligical background," your professors, or any other recognized theologians, or supposed sacred scripture scholars. For all I know they might be expressing some truth and some error. The greatest of theologians in the past century were not perfect. I pick and choose, throughout their writings what seems to be true and what seems to be not true, and Avery Dulles did the same. I want your words. I want your understanding. I do not want what the theologians, the professors, the scriptures scholars, etc. have taught you. I do not want scholarly grandeur. When I have disagreed with you in the past (on a few occasions, not many) I was disagreeing with you, not them. You are not them. Give me your answers, to my questions, based on what you have learned, and what you think is true, for you are unique. Quote them, bold them, and yet in the end give me your own understanding. Edited January 24, 2009 by kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Okay, I will give you exactly what I think. [b]What are the limits for interpreting Scripture? [/b] The limits are in the "four corners." You should never attempt to interpret something into the Word, that is not there. You should never interpret a passage as meaning something that the Lord in his words, or the Church in her words, has already interpreted in a different light. [b]What are some guides in interpreting Scripture?[/b] First, a search of your soul, as to why you are attempting to interpret them. Is it to truly grow closer to the Lord, or is it for other vainglorious reasons. Second is education, education, and more education. If I wanted to find a cure for cancer, I wouldn't go out to my garage and just start throwing chemicals together. I'd have to learn medicine and microbiology, etc. To interpret scripture, I would want to be fluent in all the original languages, study the oldest know texts with the fewest variances, and study all the interpretations of respected scholars who came before me, that are recognized as being orthodox by the church. Third and most importantly, I would always use the sacred traditions of the church as a beacon to follow. It's like a lighthouse, and if you have placed yourself where you can no longer see the light, you may run upon the rocks. [b]Should an average lay person attempt to interpret Scripture?[/b] I do not believe that an average lay person should attempt to interpret scripture. They should read it, and try to understand the meaning behind passages, listen actively to homilies that explain these readings, but trying to interpret it can lead them into serious error. Martin Luther was a scripture scholar, with a firm foundation, but yet he still got it so wrong, that he not only led himself into error, he led so many others down that same bad path. If I interpret a portion of scripture incorrectly, God may forgive me. We all yearn to know more, and sometimes over stride. If I however, take that incorrect interpretation, broadcast it as the truth, lead others to error, that is more unforgivable. When speaking on morality, and the topic of sex outside of marriage comes up, I have to point out that if you truly love someone, you don't lead them into sin. People think everything goes because they are only hurting themselves. My main goal in life is to make it to Heaven, and I love my husband enough that I never want to do anything that might endanger his salvation either. Our relationship with the church, the bible, and our brothers and sisters in Christ, works the same way. Sacred Scripture is one of the most powerful forces on Earth. It should be respected as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picchick Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='kafka' post='1760038' date='Jan 24 2009, 02:01 AM']You should have known. You should have known that I wouldnt be willing to accept the above. I really do not care about "solid theoligical background," your professors, or any other recognized theologians, or supposed sacred scripture scholars. For all I know they might be expressing some truth and some error. The greatest of theologians in the past century were not perfect. I pick and choose, throughout their writings what seems to be true and what seems to be not true, and Avery Dulles did the same. I want your words. I want your understanding. I do not want what the theologians, the professors, the scriptures scholars, etc. have taught you. I do not want scholarly grandeur. When I have disagreed with you in the past (on a few occasions, not many) I was disagreeing with you, not them. You are not them. Give me your answers, to my questions, based on what you have learned, and what you think is true, for you are unique. Quote them, bold them, and yet in the end give me your own understanding.[/quote] Ok....mean me coming out... What the heck is your problem???? She gave you your answer. Yet you refuse to accept it. What are we but products of what we have learned? My understanding comes from what I learn. You have even rejected people's own understanding. Kafka, you are becoming seemingly too proud in these threads. You SHOULD care about what people with "solid theological background" has to say. They are authority on the matter, which you seem to have a disrespect for. Why do you want to hear our "understanding" of the matter when it just very well will be the very words those scholarly professors with solid theological backgrounds say? When it comes down to it, does our understanding really matter? If it is right then we are good, if we are wrong then we need to go back to what our teachers, theologians, priests, bishops and so forth say on the matter. I trust them and those who have studied and made this subject their forte before I trust any lay person who has studied it as a hobby with no direction except from someone with faulty ideals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Pickchick....that wasn't mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) [quote name='CatherineM' post='1760224' date='Jan 24 2009, 01:15 PM']Okay, I will give you exactly what I think. [b]What are the limits for interpreting Scripture? [/b] The limits are in the "four corners." You should never attempt to interpret something into the Word, that is not there. You should never interpret a passage as meaning something that the Lord in his words, or the Church in her words, has already interpreted in a different light. [b]What are some guides in interpreting Scripture?[/b] First, a search of your soul, as to why you are attempting to interpret them. Is it to truly grow closer to the Lord, or is it for other vainglorious reasons. Second is education, education, and more education. If I wanted to find a cure for cancer, I wouldn't go out to my garage and just start throwing chemicals together. I'd have to learn medicine and microbiology, etc. To interpret scripture, I would want to be fluent in all the original languages, study the oldest know texts with the fewest variances, and study all the interpretations of respected scholars who came before me, that are recognized as being orthodox by the church. Third and most importantly, I would always use the sacred traditions of the church as a beacon to follow. It's like a lighthouse, and if you have placed yourself where you can no longer see the light, you may run upon the rocks. [b]Should an average lay person attempt to interpret Scripture?[/b] I do not believe that an average lay person should attempt to interpret scripture. They should read it, and try to understand the meaning behind passages, listen actively to homilies that explain these readings, but trying to interpret it can lead them into serious error. Martin Luther was a scripture scholar, with a firm foundation, but yet he still got it so wrong, that he not only led himself into error, he led so many others down that same bad path. If I interpret a portion of scripture incorrectly, God may forgive me. We all yearn to know more, and sometimes over stride. If I however, take that incorrect interpretation, broadcast it as the truth, lead others to error, that is more unforgivable. When speaking on morality, and the topic of sex outside of marriage comes up, I have to point out that if you truly love someone, you don't lead them into sin. People think everything goes because they are only hurting themselves. My main goal in life is to make it to Heaven, and I love my husband enough that I never want to do anything that might endanger his salvation either. Our relationship with the church, the bible, and our brothers and sisters in Christ, works the same way. Sacred Scripture is one of the most powerful forces on Earth. It should be respected as such.[/quote] that is truly glorious. That is much better. May Grace and Peace be with you all your days Catherine. May Jesus and Mary bless you all your days. This is what I wanted. My smile right now is wider than the earth. Now I suppose I must give my response to my own questions Edited January 25, 2009 by kafka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='kafka' post='1760650' date='Jan 24 2009, 10:09 PM']that is truly glorious. That is much better. May Grace and Peace be with you all your days Catherine. May Jesus and Mary bless you all your days. This is what I wanted. Now I suppose I must give my response to my own questions [/quote] I'm almost weeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='kafka' post='1760654' date='Jan 24 2009, 10:12 PM']I'm almost weeping.[/quote] yes! Catherine did a truly good deed, and I learned from her answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReinnieR Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 [quote name='ironmonk' post='1005384' date='Jun 14 2006, 08:29 AM'][b]2 Peter 1:20[/b]Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. [b]2 Peter 3:16[/b]As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. People's private interpretations can be wrong. [b]Luke 10:16[/b] "[color="#CC0000"]He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me[/color]" [b]John 14:16 [/b] [color="#CC0000"]And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate 8 to be with you always, [/color] [b]17 [/b] [color="#CC0000"]the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you. [/color] [b]18 [/b] [color="#CC0000"]I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. [/color] ... [b]26[/b][color="#CC0000"]The Advocate, the holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name--he will teach you everything and remind you of all that (I) told you. [/color] [b]1 Tim 3:15[/b]But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is [u]the church of the living God[/u], [b][u]the pillar and foundation of truth[/u][/b]. [b]St Matt 18:17 [/b] (Jesus said) [color="#990000"]If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.[/color] The Catholic Church interpretation cannot be wrong. God Bless, ironmonk[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Catherine said the same thing the second time as she did the first. Why do you have such objections to actual church documents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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