Mortal Sin

[Paddington]

I know that if sb commits a mortal sin, then he has met 3 conditions.
(grave matter of sin, informed conscience and full consent)

Does this mean that every time the 3 conditions are met together is a mortal sin?
The sinner is not only out of communion til Confession, but would definitely go to Hell if he died?

[CatherineM]

Only Christ can make that determination on Hell.

[Paddington]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1760165' date='Jan 24 2009, 01:07 PM']Only Christ can make that determination on Hell.[/quote]

So only Christ can make the determination if the 3 conditions being met together becomes a mortal sin, because it is case by case?

[sweens8403]

yes because in some cases full consent can be difficult to determine when it applies to situations involving addiction. addicts often hate what they are addicted to but find themselves unable to stop doing whatever it is even though they don't want to.

[Paddington]

[quote name='sweens8403' post='1760201' date='Jan 24 2009, 01:47 PM']yes because in some cases full consent can be difficult to determine when it applies to situations involving addiction. addicts often hate what they are addicted to but find themselves unable to stop doing whatever it is even though they don't want to.[/quote]

I'm only going for "we know for sure that the 3 conditions were met."

So it would be hypothetical.

[philothea]

[quote name='Paddington' post='1760149' date='Jan 24 2009, 11:51 AM']I know that if sb commits a mortal sin, then he has met 3 conditions.
(grave matter of sin, informed conscience and full consent)

Does this mean that every time the 3 conditions are met together is a mortal sin?
The sinner is not only out of communion til Confession, but would definitely go to Hell if he died?[/quote]
If the three conditions were truly met, I believe the person has destined themselves for Hell.

But, IMO, that's not to say that God is obliged to do anything in particular, and prayers may yet be effective. We're promised salvation if we meet certain conditions. I don't believe there's any guarantee the other direction.

And, like sweens said, there's no way for any of us to determine for certain how culpable someone is (including ourselves).

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Paddington' post='1760219' date='Jan 24 2009, 12:11 PM']I'm only going for "we know for sure that the 3 conditions were met."

So it would be hypothetical.[/quote]
I think by its very nature, the full consent and informed conscience bit is impossible to know beyond and doubt. Other than by God.

Edited January 24, 2009 by Nihil Obstat

[Slappo]

[quote name='Paddington' post='1760219' date='Jan 24 2009, 11:11 AM']I'm only going for "we know for sure that the 3 conditions were met."

So it would be hypothetical.[/quote]

Someone living in mortal sin, or out of grace... will go to hell upon death if having not gone to confession [b]OR[/b] made a perfect act of contrition. And since no one has lived to tell us what happens when you die (heh.. get it?), it is even hypothetically possible that everyone about to die in mortal sin is moved by grace to make a perfect act of contrition and therefore everyone is in heaven/purgatory.

Mortal sin = hell
Unless
confession/perfect act of contrition which = forgiveness of mortal sins

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Slappo' post='1761311' date='Jan 25 2009, 01:27 PM']Someone living in mortal sin, or out of grace... will go to hell upon death if having not gone to confession [b]OR[/b] made a perfect act of contrition. And since no one has lived to tell us what happens when you die (heh.. get it?), it is even hypothetically possible that everyone about to die in mortal sin is moved by grace to make a perfect act of contrition and therefore everyone is in heaven/purgatory.

Mortal sin = hell
Unless
confession/perfect act of contrition which = forgiveness of mortal sins[/quote]
Precisely. Too many variables to say for sure one way or another.

[Aloysius]

speaking theoretically, however, YES, when the three conditions are fully met, if the person dies without confession or perfect contrition, they will go to hell. we cannot fully know if they were all met or not in any given case, but IF they were, then the person will go to hell if they die unrepentant according to Church teaching

[Slappo]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1762847' date='Jan 26 2009, 05:47 PM']speaking theoretically, however, YES, when the three conditions are fully met, if the person dies without confession or perfect contrition, they will go to hell. we cannot fully know if they were all met or not in any given case, but IF they were, then the person will go to hell if they die unrepentant according to Church teaching[/quote]

My clarification was more on that sacramental confession is needed. But yes, without sacramental confession [b]OR[/b] a perfect act of contrition one would go to hell after committing a mortal sin.

[HisChildForever]

Question -

And to clarify, this is only in regards to Catholics -

Can you go to Hell [b]without[/b] having mortal sin on your soul? I always thought that the only way to go to Hell was if you had mortal sin on your soul.

[Aloysius]

heaven is not the default for if you don't mess up, you must be saved by Christ to go to heaven, you must be given grace to go to heaven... without that grace, whether or not you commit a mortal sin, you cannot go to heaven; hell is the only other final destination (though limbo, the edge of hell, is considered an acceptable theological speculation as another final destination)

you don't just go to heaven because you avoided all mortal sins; it is through the grace given by Christ through the Church and the sacraments that gets you to heaven, and though God can extraordinarily act when someone is deprived of the Church through no fault of their own, those are the only ordinary means by which heaven is achieved... baptism (unless one be born of water and the spirit, one cannot enter the Kingdom of God), the Eucharist (unless you eat His flesh and drink His blood you have no [eternal] life within you), confession (whose sins priests forgive are forgiven them, whose sins priests retain are retained).

personally, I believe that anyone who does not recieve the sanctifying grace of the Church but is not culpable for any mortal sins will probably go to some type of Limbo; and I'm allowed to hold to that theological possibility as a Catholic

[Nihil Obstat]

I don't want to hijack this, but I can't pass up the opportunity to bring up limbo.

I read a lot of CS Lewis, and am incredibly impressed because he says nothing specific to the Anglican faith that we don't believe as well.
At one point however, he made a distinction between heaven, hell, purgatory, AND limbo. He said purgatory was a type of waiting area for the already saved, and limbo was for the already damned. I paraphrase of course.
Anyway, is this... acceptable to believe? Seemed a bit funny to me.

[Aloysius]

yes, it is acceptable to believe. "limbo" simply means "edge", and limbo is considered thet "edge" of hell, theoretically an edge wherein the only punishment is deprivement of the beatific vision (the rest of hell also has the punishment of pain that is different by degree of what each person deserves, the "edge" would have no such punishment, they would only be deprived of the beatific vision)