Mortal Sin

[Ziggamafu]

I've always had a soft spot in my heart for limbo. Although I hold out hope that all are saved, I recognize that it certainly does not appear that way. In the event that my hope falls flat, the idea of limbo would be nice for a variety of reasons.

[b]***warning:[/b] theological speculation of extremely hypothetical nature ahead; [i]do not confuse with declaration or affirmation of personal belief! [/i][b]warning![/b][b]***[/b]

I've often wondered if being baptized ultimately "guarantees" that one will go to Heaven, even if by a miraculous gift of grace (perfect contrition) in the last moment of life. The reason for this curiosity is because baptism leaves an irremovable mark on the soul; one is permanently Catholic, permanently part of Christ's Body, even if one is in mortal sin. This, to me, begs the question of how a part of Christ's Body may exist in eternal Hell. Sit back and think about that for awhile and really fiddle with the theology involved. Let it roll around in your mind. See? Hard to rationalize.

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1762871' date='Jan 26 2009, 09:01 PM']Question -

And to clarify, this is only in regards to Catholics -

Can you go to Hell [b]without[/b] having mortal sin on your soul? I always thought that the only way to go to Hell was if you had mortal sin on your soul.[/quote]

[b]No.[/b] A [i]Catholic [/i]- that is, a baptized member of the Church - cannot go to Hell [i]without mortal sin[/i] on his soul. The commandments of the Church will ensure that. That's why they are there.

[Aloysius]

while baptism is an indullible mark on the soul, it does not guarantee that one will remain a member of Christ's body foreverr. excommunication severs one's ties with the body of Christ in a certain way, and condemnation to hell completely severs them. there are none in hell who are members of the Church, though I think it nearly impossible to hope that there are none in hell who were at one time members of the Church... it seems clear to me from the history of the Church that there are many who were members of the Church during their lifetimes who have gone to hell... I do believe the road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1763370' date='Jan 27 2009, 11:42 AM']while baptism is an indullible mark on the soul, [b]it does not guarantee that one will remain a member of Christ's body foreverr. excommunication severs one's ties with the body of Christ [i][u]in a certain way[[/u]/i], and condemnation to hell completely severs them. [/b] there are none in hell who are members of the Church, though I think it nearly impossible to hope that there are none in hell who were at one time members of the Church... it seems clear to me from the history of the Church that there are many who were members of the Church during their lifetimes who have gone to hell... I do believe the road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops[/quote]

Again - not that I am affirming my speculative curiosity as truth, nor even as a direct opinion - from what I do know, I gather that the bolded text is wrong (with a possible escape from direct error in the form of the underlined text). I do know that even in Hell, the mark of baptism would remain; and the mark is the incorporation into the Body of Christ, even if as a cancerous (in the case of the living) or "dead" (in the case of the damned) cell. So the oddity of a member of the Body of Christ being in eternal Hell would seem to remain.

Baptism is a new birth into a new and everlasting Family of God. You cannot be unborn. You can die, yes, but you cannot erase the fact of what family you belong to, even after death. You are still a member of the same Family - still a member of the Body of Christ.

Edited January 27, 2009 by Ziggamafu

[Aloysius]

I actually don't know, and don't know where to find a source for this question. I believe I had heard that baptism makes the pains of hell all the worse, but I don't really have any ideas about th nature of the membership of those in hell in the body of Christ... perhaps someone can help us out with that with some type of documentation....

as I would see it, you are reborn in baptism to eternal life, but when you go to hell you are under the power of death, you die, you have no life within you, in hell there is true death not eternal life. when you die in this way, you do indeed (I would think) cancel any membership you ever had in a family. the only reason death does not cancel out our family relationships is because when we die we do not remain dead but enter into eternal life (in a sense, we don't truly die unless we go to hell)

[Nihil Obstat]

Hell scares me
SO
MUCH.

*shivers*

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1764398' date='Jan 28 2009, 01:26 AM']Hell scares me
SO
MUCH.

*shivers*[/quote]

Me too.

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1764398' date='Jan 28 2009, 02:26 AM']Hell scares me
SO
MUCH.

*shivers*[/quote]

God loves you
SO
MUCH.
MORE.

And, presuming you love God (as it certainly seems you do), then trust in his mercy. Keep in mind that despair is just as grave a sin as presumption. Seek the sacraments and trust God to make sure you have an opportunity for confession - or make sure you are given perfect contrition - when the blessed time comes. We don't know where or who we will be in the future; but we do know that our omnipotently omnibenevolent God of grace never changes - and he wants you with him. We may not be able to trust ourselves, but we can trust in God. And that is the difference between the sin of presumption and the virtue of a confident hope.