Legionaries To Renounce Maciel As Spiritual Founder?

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
[url="http://www.americanpapist.com/2009/02/legionaries-founder-maciel-fathered.html"]From the American Papist:[/url]
[quote]Reports of this story have been circulating for several days now, and some figures have even made a veiled mention of its imminent publication.

They involve new revelations of misconduct by the founder of the Legionaries of Christ, Marcial Maciel.

.....

Suffice it to say that Pope Benedict's disciplinary actions against Maciel and interventions in Legionary practice were fully justified, and that the Legionaries of Christ have some hard decisions to make with regards to how they respond to this crisis concerning the founder. The eyes of the world are on them, and the prayers of the universal Church are with them. It is somewhat encouraging to see that the current head of the LC's personally saw to it that a thorough investigation took place. Now let's hope they follow through on their discoveries.

Other points to consider:
[list]
[*]There are many good and holy Legionary priests. I have been privileged to know several. The sins of the founder ought never be visited upon their heads, ever. Similarly, the Legionaries of Christ serve the Church in many important ways, these good things they have done must never be ignored.
[*]People who entered the Church through contact with the Legionaries of Christ or Regnum Christi, or whose faith life is closely identifiable with the movement, ought not to have their faith in the one true Church of Christ be shaken by the personal faults and failings of Marcial Maciel.
[*]However .... there remains a serious charge to be made about how the Legion has handled the allegations of misconduct against Maciel up to this point. Something along the lines of renouncing Maciel as their spiritual founder or perhaps spiritually "re-founding" the order might well be the appropriate response. For a start.
[/list][/quote]

he also has links to his archives to the back story.

[quote]The mainstream media is sure to have a field day on this one. [b]In this storm of coverage, we must not lose sight of our duty as brothers and sisters in Christ to support one another in prayer, and especially to reach out to those hurt and surprised by this news who are part of the Legionaries and Regnum Christi.[/b] In these situations we can often become confused and angered, but let us not miss this opportunity to perform spiritual and personal acts of mercy. In all this, a frank admission of the facts at hand are key to moving forward.[/quote]
amen.

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
[url="http://amywelborn.wordpress.com/2009/02/03/way-truth-and-life/"]Amy Welborn[/url] has some thoughts.
[quote]The greater point, though - is this:

Movements of all kinds (including religious orders) are a constant source of renewal for the Church. But there are risks and problems associated with any movement, and it is the Church’s responsibility - and by “Church” I mean every one of us - to view movements with open eyes, to see the good, be wary of the bad and call the evil to task.

Secrecy, hero-worship, deification of individuals, reflexive dismissal of critics as wrong-headed or even of the devil, an untoward interest in money and appearance, manipulation of members, demeaning attitudes toward non-members, deceptive means…

trouble.

There is another message for church leaders, including pastors and bishops here. Let’s be frank.

What is the appeal of Regnum Christi and its apostolates in the United States? The appeal may be negative in some ways, but those I have met who have been drawn to it are thirsting for solid faith content. They know that their children live in a challenging world and have no confidence in what passes for catechesis in the parish or even in many Catholic schools to equip them for that world. They do not see these programs or liturgies seriously oriented toward bringing those participating into a deep, committed relationship with Christ.

So something substantive appears…it appeals.

Take note.[/quote]
So does [url="http://patrickmadrid.blogspot.com/2009/02/this-is-no-time-for-happy-face-stickers.html"]Patrick Madrid[/url]
[quote]First, this is indeed very bad news — the worst possible kind — for the tens of thousands of good and faithful Catholics in the Legionaries of Christ religious order and its lay-affiliate, the Regnum Christi Movement — the vast majority of whom have, over the years, steadfastly refused to believe any accusation against Fr. Maciel, however plausible and vehemently attested to by those who claim to have been witnesses. Now, these Legionary priests and seminarians (there are thousands of them, all over the world, keep in mind) and the tens of thousands of good-hearted Regnum Christi folk are realizing that they have been duped. They are faced with the stunning, crushing, irrefutable evidence that their trust in this man was in vain, their unshakable faith in his goodness and innocence has finally been shaken to pieces. The gleaming giant of holiness they had admired for so long has been shown to have feet of clay (Daniel 2:31-32).[/quote]

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
bump

[corban711]

oh my. this is so tragic. i am not a member of their Congregation (obviously) or of their lay movement...and although i have heard the horror stories my experience of them and their work has been nothing short of amazing. we should pray a lot for those belonging to the movement...probably most especially for their faith. this could be quite devastating.

[corban711]

p.s. without getting into whether or not the accusations against him are true or not (because none of us really know), i find it interesting that these Catholic bloggers give so much credence to blogs by angry, ex-LC's and ex-RC members. im sure we will shortly see whether or not there is any truth to having fr. maciel renounced as spiritual founder. i for one would think quite strongly that the legion would avoid such a move. but i still drink chocolate milk...what do i know? it just wouldn't make sense to me.


question for any phatmasser...and i am really seeking an answer to this...has there ever been a founder of a religious congregation in the history of the Church that has started a movement that has grown into the thousands with a lay movement of almost 100,000 people (in the founders' life time) that was either 1.) not founded by a saint or blessed or 2.) been founded by someone guilty of the kinds of allegations against fr. maciel (sexual abuse, drug abuse, fathering children, perverse acts with seminarians etc. etc).

now...not that it really matters but here is my personal opinion...it just seems to me that with all the good that has been done by them (and yes, there is a great deal of good there!) and the rapidity with which they've grown...it seems highly unlikely that he would be guilty of such things. i have met several very good, orthodox and holy priests and brothers in that congregation. "you will know them by their fruits" i know that several great saints have had such charges against them...some being kicked out of their own congregations and some saints excommunicated even...but none of those saints were GUILTY of such things. and maybe at that time those things may have seemed "believable" or possibly "likely"...they were not true.

in a time when accusations against priests and religious, even good and innocent ones is normal, i think it would be wise for all of us to really pray and not jump too quickly to conclusions since the Church Herself has not said. i hope and pray that Fr. Maciel will be shown to be quite innocent at the end of all this. but either way, the priests and brothers and members of Regnum Christi around the world certainly need the support of our prayers right now. im sure this is crushing for all of them who love the Church and are trying to spread the Gospel everywhere.


prayers.

[CatherineM]

I guess it shows that even great sinners are capable of doing great works as well. So no excuse for the rest of us who aren't "holy" enough to do ministries.

This should be handled with complete openness, apologies and compensation where necessary, and atonement all around. Just like all the other scandals, we will survive this one as well.

[Maggyie]

Unfortunately I don't think there can be any question of his innocence with regard to having the sexual affair and fathering at least one child in the 80s. Unfortunately the Legion's current leadership has been presented with concrete, damning proof in that regard, I can only imagine it is DNA.

[quote name='corban711' post='1771765' date='Feb 4 2009, 03:31 AM']p.s. without getting into whether or not the accusations against him are true or not (because none of us really know), i find it interesting that these Catholic bloggers give so much credence to blogs by angry, ex-LC's and ex-RC members. im sure we will shortly see whether or not there is any truth to having fr. maciel renounced as spiritual founder. i for one would think quite strongly that the legion would avoid such a move. but i still drink chocolate milk...what do i know? it just wouldn't make sense to me.


question for any phatmasser...and i am really seeking an answer to this...has there ever been a founder of a religious congregation in the history of the Church that has started a movement that has grown into the thousands with a lay movement of almost 100,000 people (in the founders' life time) that was either 1.) not founded by a saint or blessed or 2.) been founded by someone guilty of the kinds of allegations against fr. maciel (sexual abuse, drug abuse, fathering children, perverse acts with seminarians etc. etc).

now...not that it really matters but here is my personal opinion...it just seems to me that with all the good that has been done by them (and yes, there is a great deal of good there!) and the rapidity with which they've grown...it seems highly unlikely that he would be guilty of such things. i have met several very good, orthodox and holy priests and brothers in that congregation. "you will know them by their fruits" i know that several great saints have had such charges against them...some being kicked out of their own congregations and some saints excommunicated even...but none of those saints were GUILTY of such things. and maybe at that time those things may have seemed "believable" or possibly "likely"...they were not true.

in a time when accusations against priests and religious, even good and innocent ones is normal, i think it would be wise for all of us to really pray and not jump too quickly to conclusions since the Church Herself has not said. i hope and pray that Fr. Maciel will be shown to be quite innocent at the end of all this. but either way, the priests and brothers and members of Regnum Christi around the world certainly need the support of our prayers right now. im sure this is crushing for all of them who love the Church and are trying to spread the Gospel everywhere.


prayers. [/quote]

[OCDSdad]

".....in a time when accusations against priests and religious, even good and innocent ones is normal, i think it would be wise for all of us to really pray and not jump too quickly to conclusions since the Church Herself has not said. i hope and pray that Fr. Maciel will be shown to be quite innocent at the end of all this. but either way, the priests and brothers and members of Regnum Christi around the world certainly need the support of our prayers right now. im sure this is crushing for all of them who love the Church and are trying to spread the Gospel everywhere"

Well said....I agree and pray for this. I also have known very holy and awesome LC brothers and priest. I've seen them first hand as my son was discerning with them for a short time. Please Phamily, speak very little pubicly about all this and leave the judgements to the Church whatever that turns out to be. May Fr. Marciel receive forgiveness and may soul rest in peace, and may we all embrace in Heaven.

Mr. Ray

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
his supporters have slandered his victims. do they not deserve public apologies since they were publicly slandered? i can speak publicly about it if i so choose. they (LC) need to be open and honest and transparent about it, much as the Church herself was forced to do so after the sex abuse scandals.

[OCDSdad]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1772106' date='Feb 4 2009, 04:02 PM']+J.M.J.+
his supporters have slandered his victims. do they not deserve public apologies since they were publicly slandered? i can speak publicly about it if i so choose. they (LC) need to be open and honest and transparent about it, much as the Church herself was forced to do so after the sex abuse scandals.[/quote]


You certainly can

[Maggyie]

I am all for forgiveness and not causing scandal but part of the solution for the Legion will be a complete and super-public airing of the truth. One of the main complaints that bishops have about the Legion is a culture of deception and secrecy, which seems to have come right from the top! There also needs to be a serious examination of conscience with regard to the way ex-RCs and LCs who tried to expose the truth have been treated by the order. The "official" explanations were so good that I didn't believe Fr. Maciel's accusers, either! I thought it was something akin to disgruntled employee syndrome. There are so many vocations and so much good fruit from this group but a lot of problems too, and what else can you expect from a movement that is still so new.

On another blog I read a comment from someone who said that reading the lives of founders is very interesting... in the past some of them went insane, were thrown out of their own communities, left religious life etc, sometimes it is actually the "second" founder who takes over after the first one leaves who really gives an order its true charism and character. I wonder if that is what will happen with the Legion.

Edited February 4, 2009 by Maggie

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1772106' date='Feb 4 2009, 03:02 PM']+J.M.J.+
his supporters have slandered his victims. do they not deserve public apologies since they were publicly slandered? i can speak publicly about it if i so choose. they (LC) need to be open and honest and transparent about it, much as the Church herself was forced to do so after the sex abuse scandals.[/quote]

I agree wholeheartedly. We need to atone to anyone who was injured. We spent too many years as a church trying to cover up, silence, whitewash these issues. That was our biggest sin. When we try to pretend that we are blameless/sinless, all we do is give more ammunition to our enemies. The victims are never to be treated as if they are in the wrong for speaking out. They need to hear our support and know that they were not in the wrong, and have nothing to be ashamed of.

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
i find [url="http://www.religionnews.com/index.php?/rnstext/priests_acknowledge_inappropriate_actions_by_founder1/"]the newest development[/url] rather sad:
[quote]Scarafoni declined to discuss the revelations in any detail, citing concern for the “privacy” of persons involved, and the difficulty of verifying decades-old accusations.

He said the Legion had no plans to apologize to any alleged abuse victims or offer them pastoral care. “They have surely found a way by now to receive adequate care,” he said.[/quote]
what a sad way to respond to victims who have been victimized twice (once - allegedly - by Maciel and again by slander).

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
American Papist has more updates:
[url="http://www.americanpapist.com/2009/01/text-internal-lc-update.html"]Text of a letter sent out by a Legionaries of Christ school principle on Febuary 4th, 2009.[/url]
[url="http://sndr001.mktmasbd.com/go/?r=feb1-44Y6*ITbTGwx-CLYWB59BmqRbQT6nyC9teYOHup*1744gRjugOqKU9NKA0ltaeUL*Svma60cZv3.html#"]Letter to Regnum Christi[/url]

[CatherineM]

I found myself quite upset by the statement that they already had surely found treatment, so wouldn't be offered any. You will find in most abuse victims that the apology and acknowledgment that they weren't making it up, is the most important thing to them.