The Extraordinary Masses We Could Be Getting In...

[Apotheoun]

Canon 297 might be a problem for the SSPX.

[dominicansoul]

I'm excited about all the SSPX Dominican communities! Come home SISTERS!!!

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1775701' date='Feb 8 2009, 08:11 AM'][mod]SSPX links are still not allowed on the phorum. --Era Might[/mod][/quote]
Sorry 'bout that.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1775864' date='Feb 8 2009, 01:50 PM']that is why they will be protected if they reunite. I don't think there is anything currently in the Church with such a canonical structure, but it's not unprecedented for something to be directly answerable to the Pope alone and granted freedom through any diocese. Rome will definitely protect them from the diocesan bishops.[/quote]

Answerable to the pope.... no, I don't think that is unprecedented, but to be granted freedom in any diocese especially when you are told by the bishop no... I think that would cause major friction.

I don't know... I just don't see that working out peacefully... however I guess with the grace of God....

... I don't even think I see it happening. I don't know if Pope Benedict would do something like that, however SSPX is going to have to be protected somehow...

Edited February 8, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria

[Resurrexi]

Do you honestly think it would work for the SSPX priests to have to answer to the local bishop as priests ordinarily do? Many bishops are openly hostile to the SSPX and would probably kick them out of their dioceses if they had the chance.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1775971' date='Feb 8 2009, 02:07 PM']Do you honestly think it would work for the SSPX priests to have to answer to the local bishop as priests ordinarily do? Many bishops are openly hostile to the SSPX and would probably kick them out of their dioceses if they had the chance.[/quote]
I don't think it would work. Some other sort of governing structure will have to be devised by the Vatican.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1775971' date='Feb 8 2009, 05:07 PM']Do you honestly think it would work for the SSPX priests to have to answer to the local bishop as priests ordinarily do? Many bishops are openly hostile to the SSPX and would probably kick them out of their dioceses if they had the chance.[/quote]

I am not saying they should have to answer to them. They would answer to the Pope or their Superiors, as any religious or priestly society does, from my understanding.

But, they should be welcomed into the Diocese. If they are not welcomed there by the Bishop then they cannot come (same with FSSP, from what I understand). I really don't think it would be right for them to just be able to move in where ever they please without the Bishop's consent. It just wouldn't work. .... no I don't see that working very well. They would have to have the Bishop's blessing to function in the diocese.

.... I don't know. It is very sticky. I am glad I don't have to figure it out. Prayers for Papa Benny

Edited February 8, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria

[Aloysius]

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1775868' date='Feb 8 2009, 02:01 PM']There used to be one in my diocese, but it's not on the map. Must have closed down.

I would hope at least the Diocese would have some chance at a say in the matters of locations.
I suppose I feel that way as we did have the EF offered in my Diocese, yet they still entered our Diocese (against the Bishop's wishes of course).[/quote]
according to Summorum Pontificum, the Bishop has no authority to limit the number of Extraordinary Form masses in his diocese and no priest in his diocese needs permission from the bishop to schedule a public Extraordinary Form mass. The SSPX having juridical freedom from the diocesan bishop will secure the rights of Catholics in every diocese to have the Extraordinary Form and keep

they might be given a personal prelature, or an Apostolic Administration, or an International (borderless) Diocese. They cannot be submitted to diocesan authority; in France alone they would be dessimated if they submitted to diocesan authority.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1776042' date='Feb 8 2009, 05:55 PM']I am not saying they should have to answer to them. They would answer to the Pope or their Superiors, as any religious or priestly society does, from my understanding.

But, they should be welcomed into the Diocese. If they are not welcomed there by the Bishop then they cannot come (same with FSSP, from what I understand). I really don't think it would be right for them to just be able to move in where ever they please without the Bishop's consent. It just wouldn't work. .... no I don't see that working very well. They would have to have the Bishop's blessing to function in the diocese.

.... I don't know. It is very sticky. I am glad I don't have to figure it out. Prayers for Papa Benny [/quote]
there is precedent in history for priests to be made answerable only to the pope and able to pass into any diocese with only the Pope's permission. the Pope will likely create such a canonical loophole for the SSPX (which will be best applied by eitherr an Apostolic Administration or an International borderless Diocese) because many of the bishops have shown that it is their intent to supress the rights granted to the priests and the faithful by the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum.

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1775878' date='Feb 8 2009, 08:35 PM']I'm excited about all the SSPX Dominican communities! Come home SISTERS!!! [/quote]

I was thinking about that - because getting them back in the Church would [i]not[/i] make them part of the Order. And I don't get the idea the current Master to just stamp "approved" on them.

I wonder how they plan to fix it...

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1776139' date='Feb 8 2009, 07:26 PM']according to Summorum Pontificum, the Bishop has no authority to limit the number of Extraordinary Form masses in his diocese and no priest in his diocese needs permission from the bishop to schedule a public Extraordinary Form mass. The SSPX having juridical freedom from the diocesan bishop will secure the rights of Catholics in every diocese to have the Extraordinary Form and keep

they might be given a personal prelature, or an Apostolic Administration, or an International (borderless) Diocese. They cannot be submitted to diocesan authority; in France alone they would be dessimated if they submitted to diocesan authority.[/quote]

Which, as my original post said, we already had the EF being offered in the Diocese. An interesting note, this was offered WITH the Bishop's approval and BEFORE Summorum Pontificum. The EF was even offered by a Diocesan Priest, not say the FSSP or such communities. [To my knowledge, our Bishop has even offered the EF himself in these past few years, so I don't think there is much concern about him 'blocking' the EF or the likes.]

Yet, even with our Diocese offering the EF, an SSPX chapel was still opened. They, of course, sent a letter requesting faculties and were denied.

I quite frankly don't know what my Bishop's thoughts are on the SSPX.

I would, however, understand if such a Bishop would be somewhat wary of them. And would hope that he might be allowed to make suggestions in such a matter concerning his Diocese.

Edited February 9, 2009 by CatholicCid

[Aloysius]

but in the post-motu-proprio world, one EF mass per diocese doesn't cut it anymore. The bishop, under the current law affected by Summorum Pontificum, already doesn't have the right to say "no, we already have the EF being offered so you shouldn't open an EF chapel in our diocese because we don't want another EF mass"... what I'm saying is that, would that same situation occur after Summorum Pontificum and when the SSPX is fully regularized, the Bishop would be wrong to oppose their entry on the basis that there was already an EF mass.

and seeing as many bishops are intent upon suppressing the rights granted by Summorum Pontificum, the SSPX as a structure independent of the diocesan system (with the direct command of the Pope that they are to be granted free access in and out of any diocese) will guarantee the rights of the faithful to the Extraordinary Form against the oppression of the diocesan bishops.

I would guess the way it would work is that if the Bishop had a problem with something the SSPX was doing in his diocese, he would deal directly with +Fellay, the Ecclesia Dei Commission, and the Pope to come to an arrangement.

[CatholicCid]

But, the Bishop was in the right. The SSPX were and still are not in full communion with the Church. He would actually be in the wrong to allow them entry into his Diocese, regardless of the reason.

And it would seem disrespectful to the Bishop if the SSPX entered a Diocese where the faithful already have access to the EF. As with any other order, I think the Bishop should be allowed a say in who operates within his Diocese, even with the SSPX. Now, as you stated, not all Bishops might be welcoming to them, so perhaps that say should be diminished, but I think should somehow still be present. e.g. The SSPX request to enter a Diocese. Rome hears this request and the Bishop be allowed a say in the matter. Rome can then decide.

I wonder what organization the FSSP uses?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1775846' date='Feb 8 2009, 01:23 PM']they will likely be given a structure which does not subject them to the local diocesan bishops, but subjects them to their bishops and then directly to the Pope himself. they're not going to accept anything less, and Rome seems quite willing to give them something like that (possibly in the form of an Apostolic Administration, or an International Diocese.. the Personal Prelaturue possibility would still likely keep this protection from the local bishops)[/quote]
The problem is Al if they are saying as you put it " they're not going to accept anything less".
The implication that I hear in that phrase is the SSPX is calling the shots and not the Holy Father. That is just wrong.

[Aloysius]

except the Holy Father has no problem with that so nor should you. he understands their concerns and is not trying to beat them into submission or make them shout a mea culpa over the past decades; he's giving concessions to their desires because he knows that they are necessary for the Church. the SSPX will accept nothing less, but it seems the Holy Father won't be offering anything less.. he's pretty much said the bishops mishandled the Ecclesia Dei indult system and he is probably recognizing now that the bishops are attempting to undermine the Summorum Pontificum system that gives all latin priests faculties for the 1962 missal and full freedom to decide whether or not to offer it, and so he's looking to the SSPX and their demand to be free from the diocesan system and saying "makes sense, I have no problem offering you something like that"; at least that's my analysis of what's going on.

I am not saying your bishop was in the wrong then, but that he would be in the wrong after the SSPX is regularized.

it is NOT disrespectful to enter a diocese which already offers the EF to offer another EF. There ought to be as many EFs as there are priests willing to offer them in any given diocese.