Nihil Obstat Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Quote from Wikipedia: [quote]Mass Many Life Teen masses have been known for their deviance from the norms of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal of the Roman Catholic Church, having encouraged practices such as gathering the congregation in the sanctuary and [b]changing the words of the closing rite to "The mass never ends".[/b] In 2004, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops requested that Life Teen follow liturgical norms within its masses, to which it requested parishes that use the Life Teen mass to comply with the Bishops' request, ending Life Teen's approval of gathering in the sanctuary and changing the words of the mass. [b]Use of guitars and drums [/b]within the context of the liturgy continues in many parishes to this day.[/quote] First bolded: Could changing the words like this be considered an abuse? I've heard it quite a bit, but I haven't read the GIRM, so I'm kinda ignorant. Second bolded: I thought it was technically allowed but discouraged and probably going to become illicit. I'm wrong? Anyway, just so this isn't a question thread, I'd like to ask: what sorts of common abuses in the Mass do you see on a regular basis? I'd rather that this didn't turn into a wholesale rant against Extraordinary Ministers or P&W music, or Communion in the hand, if that's all right....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 At my younger brother's Confirmation a few years ago, the Bishop included "She" to describe God in the opening blessing. "May He [i]or She[/i]" - something like that. I almost fell over. That would be an abuse, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1776152' date='Feb 8 2009, 06:03 PM']At my younger brother's Confirmation a few years ago, the Bishop included "She" to describe God in the opening blessing. "May He [i]or She[/i]" - something like that. I almost fell over. That would be an abuse, right?[/quote] Ooh, I'll bet. That's pretty bad, especially since it was a bishop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Today at Mass a visiting priest passed out Communion into the hand of the gathered EEMs who immediately consumed the hosts in turn...the only problem was that neither the Priest nor the Deacons attending had Consumed the Blessed Sacrament under either species yet. Our usual Parish Priest waits to distribute to the EEMs until AFTER he has communicated under both species...I guess none of the EEMs even thought about the fact that the visiting Priest hadn't consumed a host. I don't think anyone did it intentionally, but the Deacon was the only who thought hard enough to keep his host in his hand until the priest consumed his host. Oh the "progressiveness" of receiving the Body of the Lord in the hand...how it so clearly communicates doctrine and prevents liturgical errors... Oh well...another victory for egalitarianism in the Mass I suppose... Wait I wasn't supposed to gripe about EEMs or receiving Communion in the hand right? Oops...sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1776155' date='Feb 8 2009, 07:07 PM']Ooh, I'll bet. That's pretty bad, especially since it was a bishop![/quote] I know. This happened the summer before last, I believe: one of our priests (still with us) was sort of making insinuations about women priests. He basically said it was a shame/unfortunate that women are "excluded." Ohhh you know what, it was the homily for a feast...Feast of the Holy Spirit? Because the reason why he got on that topic was because he said the Holy Spirit can be seen as feminine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 At one of the more 'liberal' parishes I've attended, there was a nun (whom I've heard others jokingly refer to as "priestess") who the priest more or less let give weekly homilies, set up the altar for the Eucharistic Liturgy, and then distribute the Blessed Body of our Lord into separate glass host bowls, and THEN distribute the Precious Blood of Our Lord from the singularly blessed large carafe into individual glasses post-Consecration...AND THEN she cleaned up the altar for him at the end of the Eucharistic Liturgy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 [quote name='Veridicus' post='1776158' date='Feb 8 2009, 07:14 PM']Today at Mass a visiting priest passed out Communion into the hand of the gathered EEMs who immediately consumed the hosts in turn...the only problem was that neither the Priest nor the Deacons attending had Consumed the Blessed Sacrament under either species yet. Our usual Parish Priest waits to distribute to the EEMs until AFTER he has communicated under both species...I guess none of the EEMs even thought about the fact that the visiting Priest hadn't consumed a host. I don't think anyone did it intentionally, but the Deacon was the only who thought hard enough to keep his host in his hand until the priest consumed his host. Oh the "progressiveness" of receiving the Body of the Lord in the hand...how it so clearly communicates doctrine and prevents liturgical errors... Oh well...another victory for egalitarianism in the Mass I suppose... Wait I wasn't supposed to gripe about EEMs or receiving Communion in the hand right? Oops...sorry.[/quote] I don't take issue with EMs or receiving in the hand but I felt the need to reply to this because it reminded me of Mass today - we normally have two priests in front of the altar (my pastor is always one) distributing, and usually EMs on the side. But today, it was the celebrating priest [b]and one EM[/b] before the altar, and my pastor was [b]off to the side[/b] in a EM spot. It def didn't look right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1776168' date='Feb 8 2009, 07:19 PM']I don't take issue with EMs or receiving in the hand but I felt the need to reply to this because it reminded me of Mass today - we normally have two priests in front of the altar (my pastor is always one) distributing, and usually EMs on the side. But today, it was the celebrating priest [b]and one EM[/b] before the altar, and my pastor was [b]off to the side[/b] in a EM spot. It def didn't look right.[/quote] My issue wasn't specifically with EEMs receiving the host in the hand as much as in their consuming the Eucharist BEFORE the priest in persona christi. As far as I know, it has been basically explicit teaching that the priest should be the first to consume the Blessed Sacrament (I think Ignatius of Antioch wrote about it in the early 1st century). My aside about receiving in the hand was just to demonstrate how easily this abuse could be rectified because there would be no question if it was the norm to receive on the tongue...you swallow when the Eucharist is placed there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeniteAdoremus Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 We skip the second reading more often than not, and while I (a female) am preparing the chalice our parish priest asks me from his chair ten feet away if I can straighten the surplice of the altar boy handing me the wine. Er... right. And then I have to either purify or lock Father in the sacristy until he does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1776168' date='Feb 8 2009, 07:19 PM']I don't take issue with EMs or receiving in the hand but I felt the need to reply to this because it reminded me of Mass today......[/quote] And don't forget that ever-important "E" at the beginning of "[b]E[/b]EM". The normative Eucharistic Minister is the priest or Deacon, any laity are Extraordinary (even if, ironically, they vastly outnumber the Ordinary Ministers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeniteAdoremus Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Oh, and not to be defensive, but I tried to stop being an acolyte and people started working on my [i]conscience[/i] of all things. I'm quitting permanently in June. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 [quote name='Veridicus' post='1776172' date='Feb 8 2009, 07:22 PM']My issue wasn't specifically with EEMs receiving the host in the hand as much as in their consuming the Eucharist BEFORE the priest in persona christi. As far as I know, it has been basically explicit teaching that the priest should be the first to consume the Blessed Sacrament (I think Ignatius of Antioch wrote about it in the early 1st century). My aside about receiving in the hand was just to demonstrate how easily this abuse could be rectified because there would be no question if it was the norm to receive on the tongue...you swallow when the Eucharist is placed there.[/quote] I have a question stemming from this... When does the priest "start" [i]in persona christi[/i] and when does he "end" [i]in persona christi[/i]? I thought it is only while he is transforming the bread and wine, not after when he is distributing the Body into the individual bowls. Is he still standing as Christ when he consumes the host? Jesus...consuming Jesus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 this church i went to today only gave the body and not the blood? is this allowed to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeniteAdoremus Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 [quote name='havok579257' post='1776192' date='Feb 9 2009, 02:33 AM']this church i went to today only gave the body and not the blood? is this allowed to happen?[/quote] Yes. It's actually preffered if dip 'n drip is the alternative... The fullness of Christ is present in [i]both[/i] the Bread and the Wine. So only the Bread is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1776182' date='Feb 8 2009, 07:27 PM']I have a question stemming from this... When does the priest "start" [i]in persona christi[/i] and when does he "end" [i]in persona christi[/i]? I thought it is only while he is transforming the bread and wine, not after when he is distributing the Body into the individual bowls. Is he still standing as Christ when he consumes the host? Jesus...consuming Jesus?[/quote] My understanding is that he is in persona christi during the entirety of the Eucharistic Liturgy, but speaks as Christ (I guess in the fullest sense of "persona Christi") during the words of Institution. Someone more educated than me can probably give a better explanation on the mechanics of persona Christi But in any case, the priest having the dignity of functioning in the person of Christ at the Mass has the honor of consuming the Blessed Sacrament first before the laity and this is attested in the early writings of the Fathers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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