lilac_angel Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) [b]Direct quote: Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” "Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them."[/b] This is in the "stimulus bill" that is being voted on today in The Senate. In short... Your medical treatments will be tracked and rationed by the Government. Your doctor will consult government guidelines for your treatment. If you are a senior citizen, or have parents and/or grandparents that are senior citizens this will affect you/them. The treatment may be deemed too expensive compared to your/their age and denied. Read the entire article below. Continue to call your Senators with opposition to this "stimulus". [url="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&refer=columnist_mccaughey&sid=aLzfDxfbwhzs"]http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=aLzfDxfbwhzs[/url] Edited February 10, 2009 by lilac_angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 No surprise there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Its a copy of the English model of healthcare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I may be in the minority, but I don't have a problem with the idea of rationing health care. I would rather everyone had access to basic care than for some to do without any in order that some may have procedures that are way out of proportion from financial drain on the system vs. long term benefit. My mom is 86, so this isn't just academic to me. She could use a knee replacement, but at her age, and with her medical history, the cost/benefit just isn't there. She knows that, and agrees. Some people are not able to make that decision for themselves. I've seen people unable to let go when it is their grandparent or parent's time. I've seen frail elderly undergo procedures that I wouldn't want to because their child wants everything done. If we believe that there is an afterlife, that we will see our loved ones again in heaven, we don't have to hang on so tight that we rob from our children's future for a few more earthly moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1778150' date='Feb 10 2009, 05:12 PM']I may be in the minority, but I don't have a problem with the idea of rationing health care. I would rather everyone had access to basic care than for some to do without any in order that some may have procedures that are way out of proportion from financial drain on the system vs. long term benefit. My mom is 86, so this isn't just academic to me. She could use a knee replacement, but at her age, and with her medical history, the cost/benefit just isn't there. She knows that, and agrees. Some people are not able to make that decision for themselves. I've seen people unable to let go when it is their grandparent or parent's time. I've seen frail elderly undergo procedures that I wouldn't want to because their child wants everything done. If we believe that there is an afterlife, that we will see our loved ones again in heaven, we don't have to hang on so tight that we rob from our children's future for a few more earthly moments.[/quote] The difference however, is between a procedure that [i]may[/i] help you and one that [i]will[/i] help you, and the length of time you will have improved health or life. One's existance should never be reduced to mere cost/benefit analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 When you live in a society where people are disposable, this is the natural progression. Human rights my ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I take it this only is in regards to those whose health care is being paid for by the gov't. I mean, if you have the money, you can have just about anything you want that's not spiritual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1778402' date='Feb 10 2009, 10:09 PM']I take it this only is in regards to those whose health care is being paid for by the gov't. I mean, if you have the money, you can have just about anything you want that's not spiritual.[/quote] Government eventually will be taking over healthcare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerlina Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 (edited) [quote name='CatherineM' post='1778150' date='Feb 10 2009, 05:12 PM']Some people are not able to make that decision for themselves. I've seen people unable to let go when it is their grandparent or parent's time. I've seen frail elderly undergo procedures that I wouldn't want to because their child wants everything done.[/quote] I'm not totally sure how I feel about the rationed healthcare, though I guess I don't see that it is that different from how Insurance Companies work (though, of course, those who can afford it can buy better insurance) but I agree totally with your thoughts on the elderly often having to undergo procedures and have measures taken that do nothing but cause them more pain and suffering and prevent a natural, peaceful death. At my nursing home we had a lady that was on a feed tube for almost 2 years-it was painful to see , she had been a resident for a while and was always a kick-it was depressing to see her staring into space, mumbling to herself, not having any enjoyment in life whatsoever. It's also sad when employees basically have to force people out of bed to walk, eat, drink, exercise just to justify themselves as there is nothing more terrifying to a Healthcare facility than the prospect of a lawsuit. -Katie Edited February 11, 2009 by Tinkerlina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I say scrap healthcare entirely. The healthy people will survive to populate a stronger, more immunoresistant race. While we're at it, let's just kill everyone who's not obviously really strong. Even if they aren't sick. We'll need a snazzy logo and charismatic leader..... Hang on, deja vu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilac_angel Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 (edited) [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1778258' date='Feb 10 2009, 06:25 PM']When you live in a society where people are disposable, this is the natural progression. Human rights my ass.[/quote] It's a slippery slope, for sure. I'm sure there are cases that are difficult moral choices for people who have to decide for someone else, but there are other legitimately suffering seniors who [i]do[/i] want to not be miserable and can think for themselves, including my grandfather and grandfather-in-law. Edited February 11, 2009 by lilac_angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1778468' date='Feb 10 2009, 10:06 PM']I say scrap healthcare entirely. The healthy people will survive to populate a stronger, more immunoresistant race. While we're at it, let's just kill everyone who's not obviously really strong. Even if they aren't sick. We'll need a snazzy logo and charismatic leader..... Hang on, deja vu.[/quote] I saw a report about how we are actually breeding weaker rather than stronger. One example was the size of birth canals. 300 years ago, if your birth canal wasn't big enough, you died in child birth thereby not passing that gene on. Now you have Cesarean sections. My brother who's an internist said that in 100 years, over half of all births will have to be Cesarean. If we have a disruption in our medical system, like going Mad Max or something, those women will just start dying again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilac_angel Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 (edited) I'm sure Obama will find a way to clear up the "problem" of weaker childbearers. If they go Mad Max, it definitely would discourage a lot of women from getting pregnant! Or, perhaps, simply raise the rate of abortions even higher. I liked the patron saints of doctors/medicine, St. Cosmos and St. Damian. I think I'm going to start asking for their intercession more now. Edited February 11, 2009 by lilac_angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 This makes me think of the Star Trek: Voyager episode 'Critical Care', where the level of care each person gets is determined on how much they contribute to society. [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1778129' date='Feb 10 2009, 08:53 PM']Its a copy of the English model of healthcare.[/quote] He may have gotten some ideas from the NHS, but the way Daschle's trying to put it in effect is not like the NHS. As far as I know they don't have to be rigidly guided by government protocols in determining various tests or the like. When I've gone in with a complaint and ask for a specific test to rule out something, they have done it. I do think one reason the NHS works as well as it does is because there is still a private medical sector here, which serves to keep the NHS competitive. From what the excerpts I've seen in the stimulus bill, they aren't allowing for such a distinction but imposing this on all doctors, and that's not right. If they want to have a government system that doctors can opt into as they wish, that's one thing, but forcing it on all medical practitioners is just not right. Well, guess I'll write another letter to my Senators & Congressman. Boy are they going to get tired of hearing from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkerlina Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 [quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1778632' date='Feb 11 2009, 04:38 AM']He may have gotten some ideas from the NHS, but the way Daschle's trying to put it in effect is not like the NHS. As far as I know they don't have to be rigidly guided by government protocols in determining various tests or the like. When I've gone in with a complaint and ask for a specific test to rule out something, they have done it. I do think one reason the NHS works as well as it does is because there is still a private medical sector here, which serves to keep the NHS competitive.[/quote] That's a good point. I have mixed feelings on healthcare, I can see the pros and cons of a nationalized healthcare system and private healthcare. I didn't realize the UK NHS had a competitive private sector-perhaps we should strike a balance like this. They would keep eachother in check, maybe. -Katie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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