Priests Speaks Truth - Clears Pews

[ardillacid]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1782756' date='Feb 16 2009, 06:17 PM']Now... if we could just do something about St. Joan's...[/quote]

[DemonSlayer]

Sounds like the parish wasn't even Catholic before the priest arrived.

[Maximilianus]

This story brings to mind when the Lord told St. Francis "Go, Francis, and repair my house, which as you see is falling into ruin."

Edited February 17, 2009 by Maximilianus

[thessalonian]

Isn't it the story of Gideaon where he goes out with an army of 10,000 to fight 10,000 and God widdles it down to about 300 and says that's about right. This same thing happened up in the parish of the Bishop up in Fargo. He came in and all the old liberals left but 5 years later the Church was filled with young families with lots of kids who wanted the truth. My sister with 8 kids travels 50 miles because the diocese of Crookston across the river from Fargo became so liberal as well. Her boys are the first ones the Bishop calls when he wants altar servers.

Edited February 17, 2009 by thessalonian

[thessalonian]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1782756' date='Feb 16 2009, 06:17 PM']Thanks for posting this, Thess. I don't get the Strib.

Now... if we could just do something about St. Joan's...[/quote]

I see Kathy Itzin, the open lesbian is still running religous ed. I just sent the AB an email. He probably heard about that fisaco but maybe it's not on his radar screen yet. In truth from what I heard St. Stephen's was as bad or worse. I am sure he will get to St. Joan's.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1782955' date='Feb 16 2009, 09:20 PM']I don't say this to sound judgmental but it strikes me as odd that she still calls herself catholic. At least she still prays the rosary.[/quote]

That's not unusual at all. For most cradle Catholics it's as much a part of their identity as their ethnicity. And deep down, people know that the Catholic Church cannot be replicated. All kinds of schisms, pseudo-Catholic, and Protestant churches are out there, but the uniqueness and culture of Catholicism keeps people coming even when they obstinately disagree with Church teachings. But that's only a problem if it's something you care about.

[littlesister]

St. Stephen's has a great pastor. He deserves better than that. Given time and support, he'll get it. Meantime...prayers, please.

[Dan]

As a cradle Catholic born nearly one-half of the way through the last century of the most recent millennium, I get fascinated watching "progressive" types trying to put a question mark where God put a period.

They will say, "Shouldn't we be able to do this?"

The Father Almighty has said, "Don't do that."

Question marks and periods are not interchangable.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Dan' post='1784332' date='Feb 18 2009, 08:12 AM']Question marks and periods are not interchangable.[/quote]
Fullstop.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Dan' post='1784332' date='Feb 18 2009, 09:12 AM']I get fascinated watching "progressive" types trying to put a question mark where God put a period.[/quote]

[Johnny]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1782600' date='Feb 16 2009, 05:22 PM']Sad they all left but I have to ask whether they were really with us in the first place. Gotta love our new Archbishop who is cleaning up some of this mess in the Archdiocese MPls/St. Paul. In time this priests efforts will bear fruit. He will attract people who want truth.

[url="http://www.startribune.com/local/39596282.html?elr=KArksUUUU"]http://www.startribune.com/local/39596282.html?elr=KArksUUUU[/url]

Father Joseph Williams came "from the farm to the hood" less than a year ago, to a congregation in a spiritual crisis and a neighborhood riddled with poverty and crime. He is only 34, but as he sits in a low-ceilinged office in the basement of St. Stephen's Catholic Church, it seems like the weight of the 110-year-old structure, and the centuries-old institution itself, sit squarely on his shoulders.

When Williams arrived in April, there were 350 families at the church, maybe more. On a recent Sunday, during the only remaining mass in English, coughs echoed off the empty pews as a couple of dozen people mumbled through the service.

That's it, he said.

The rest have fled, or just given up.

Williams, under the direction of a new pope and new archbishop, has steered one of the country's most liberal churches in a more orthodox direction. No more services in the "egalitarian" school gym. No more laity saying mass or celebrating the eucharist. No more prayers to "our father and mother in heaven."

The collection plate is down 90 percent. This spring, the priest who not long ago led a congregation in an idyllic small town, will tell the charter school known for a peace-and-justice curriculum that it must go because the church needs more rent.

Williams -- smart, witty and likable -- talks about providence, his faith that God is directing this drama. But when asked if the congregation could continue if it did not grow, he frowns.

"No," he said. "We're taking on water."

• • •

Former St. Stephen's priest Ed Flahavan says that two tsunamis have hit the church, which towers over the Whittier and Phillips neighborhood a half-mile from downtown Minneapolis. The first was in 1968, bringing with it the flotsam of the era.

I lived across the street, was an altar boy and graduated from the Catholic grade school. My first job was cleaning up the basement, where homeless people crashed on floor mats.

I saw the first guitar mass, the start of the American Indian Movement and gay rights. We sang Bob Dylan songs instead of hymns. Except the answer, my friend, was living in all men.

In protest, the traditionalists handed out fliers, Defenders' Trumpet, saying things had gone crazy. I sometimes had to squeeze through picket lines to serve mass, as barriers to worship came down, or went up, depending on your view.

Eventually, the church stopped being the center of the neighborhood, which crumbled. A man was killed in my back yard. The fourplex where I grew up became a crack house after my parents fled to Staples, seeking a different kind of sanctuary.

• • •

The second tsunami hit last winter, exactly 40 years later.

Henry Bromelkamp was in the forefront of the new exodus, starting an offshoot called "The Spirit of St. Stephens" when the parish turned back to tradition.

Bromelkamp personally likes Williams, "but I think he thought what St. Stephen's did for the poor was charity," he said. "It's a demand for justice, not just for the poor, but for all of us. Hierarchy acts like the route to God is only through its hierarchy. That doesn't make us believe it."

A deeper anger

The new priest thought there was "no opposition between a shared liturgy and a radical passion for social services. Maybe I was naively optimistic to that end," Williams said. "I began to realize the anger with the institution was deeper than I thought. They didn't see that people were hurt by the liberties taken with the liturgy."

"Some people said I was hand-picked by the bishops to dismantle the church," he continued. "If I was, they didn't tell me about it."

Dennis McGrath, spokesman for the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis, is firm on that question: "Absolutely not."

While McGrath has seen lots of rifts inside churches, "I can't think of another situation like this. It's not a conservative or liberal issue, though that's part of it, it's a question of the veracity of the church."

"We knew we were drifting across the line," Flahavan said. "Some who left kept going. They left Rome."

I left the church, in both senses of the word, years ago. I followed the prophets that seemed to speak to me at the time, whether it was Sartre, Rand or Hunter S. Thompson. My own Church of One. Unlike those who recently left, however, I never expected the church to come with me.

"This is more than I bargained for," admits Williams, who again mentions providence.

He sees promise in the new influx of immigrants (Williams is fluent in Spanish) who can rejuvenate St. Stephen's as the Irish did decades ago: "Lovely people."

"While there is a sense of loss, there is also great hope for renewal," Williams said. "Our doors are open."

Jon Tevlin • 612-673-1702[/quote]
Good, I am glad to hear this. I originally hail from the Mpls/St.P area. I grew up in a small town called Circle Pines. It was extraordinarily liberal. I converted back in 2005-06. I remember being told in RCIA that salvation was possible for all religions. I was also told that the "Ragamuffin Gospel" was essential reading. We meditated, had a Native American spiritualist come and speak to us about "nature," and other such nonsense. Hopefully my church will start cleaning up it's act.

[MithLuin]

Weeeeelllll....salvation is possible for all people.

Salvation comes through Jesus and His Church. The normal or usual way to take part in this would be to be baptized. But that does not mean that God will not acknowledge anyone else as His children. The Church recognizes the possibility that the mystical body of Christ is a bit more mystical than than .

There is a possibility of salvation for non-baptized persons, though of course not for people who actually reject God.

I haven't read the Ragamuffin Gospel, so I don't know how bad it is. And again...meditation is a good thing, if done properly . Still, I am sure some changes would be helpful.

[mortify]

[i][b]Time to clean house
[/b][/i]
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